Justification for using drugs

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
21

Well now, let me jump in here.

I’m pretty clean cut, I guess. Lazy 19 year old white American college student. Grew up in a small town in a small school.

I tried smoking for about two weeks when I was 14 or 15. Didn’t like it. Haven’t smoked since. It’s surely been offered, and available, but I haven’t.

I drank the first time when I was 16. I get drunk once every week or two, I could easily get drunk every other night, and with a little more work, every single night. I don’t feel the need or desire to, really. I turn down about half the alcohol offered to me, and usually don’t even feel like drinking at all. Mostly I’m a social drinker, I never drink alone, but when I do get drunk, I go all out. (See last week’s trainwreck in MPSIMS and IMHO for further details.) I just don’t feel the desire to drink very often. I’m quite likely going to get rip roarin’ drunk tonite, but it’ll be the first time I’ve drank since the referenced time above. I just don’t really need or want to drink very often.

Since I’ve been about 16, I’ve wanted to try pot. I educated myself on the dangers, pitfalls, side effects, etc, and found out that there’s really not very many. I don’t want to smoke, because I don’t want to damage my lungs (I used to fancy myself a sprinter, I keep telling myself I’ll get back into it one of these days). I decided a long time ago that the only pot I was going to do was going to be either immolated, or in brownies, cookies, whatever. I finally had a chance to try it a few weeks ago, and it was a nice feeling. I enjoyed it, and plan on doing it again in the indefinate future.

Upon educating myself on marijuana, I came to discover that 'shrooms and acid were basically ‘safe’ drugs, if you used them properly, in the right mindset, and the right location and environment. I also decided at this point that if everything was as it should be, and I had a chance to try either of these, I certainly would. Well, last week, the chance to try mushrooms was there. So I did. And you know what? It was really, really neat. I don’t think it damaged me in the bit. If it did, I sure haven’t noticed. And you know what? I plan on doing these again in the indefinate future, also.

Am I a ‘drug user’ now? I don’t know. I suppose. Am I a ‘drug abuser’ now? Most certainly not. I have a mild desire to try each again in the future, but it’s not a driving need, more like a “Hey, I’d like to do that again sometime…” And I believe that a majority of people are just like me in this respect.

I have friends who fiend for weed, but they are a minority. I have friends who fiend for alcohol, but they are a minority. Do you know who are the majority? Friends who fiend for a cigarette.

Surprisingly, this is the only drug I’ve mentioned that’s widely available, incredibly easy to get and use, and lightly regulated (you can smoke under the influence of nicotine, for example), and it’s also, again, ding the most dangerous. A drop of pure nicotine can kill you. A drop of pure psilocybin will trip you for a week, but you surely won’t die.

I think it’s wrong to criminalize someone for doing just what I’ve done, and that is educated, occassional drug use. I certainly do NOT plan on taking any ‘non-natural’ drug, like X, cocaine, heroin, et cetera.

Make of this what you will, and I’ll be in the Pit if you need me.

–Tim

22

Uh…wrong. The distinction between hard and soft drugs is based solely on their potential for addiction. Psychedelics are some of the least-addictive psychoactive drugs on earth.

Man, your friend isn’t very lucky, is he? FTR, I’ve never purchased pot that was laced with anything and neither has anyone I know. I mean, come on. These guys are out to make a profit. Why would you waste a bunch of angel dust on somebody else’s sack? That’s throwing your money away for no apparent reason. It just doesn’t make sense. Perhaps the guy who sold your friend the pot didn’t like him and lacing it was his way of getting even.

Even if this phemonenon was more widespread, it would just be yet another argument for legalization, which would ensure strict quality controls.

I’m so sick of this attitude! Between work and school, I’m away from home 18-20 hours a day. I also have A’s in all my classes so far. If that’s lazy and unmotivated, I’d like to know what isn’t!

In one of his columns, Cecil suggests the possibility that naturally lazy people are more likely to smoke pot, hence the lazy pothead stereotype. Pot didn’t make them that way, but it certainly complemented their personality. Sounds reasonable to me.

23

BTW, I have TONS of acquaintences who are total potheads. And all the years I’ve known them, they’ve only gotten ONE tainted bag, and it was tainted with PCP. They asked the dealer and he said he had spilled some. Once. Accidentally. Once. Should I say it again? Once.

–Tim

24

I guess what you are all forgetting here is that everyone is different. No, I never said that a little weed would turn you into a fiend. I said once again…that experimentation can be dangerous for some people and you can never tell just who might be one of those people. And if you want to define “hard drugs” by their potential for addiction, fine. We can’t talk about the dangers of LSD untless you’ve actually tired any of the real stuff. Nothing I’ve tried since 1975 has been much more than a weird kind of speed.

My contention is that it is not OK for me as an adult and someone who KNOWS the dangers of drugs to advise young people “that it’s OK if you can handle it”. Because for teenagers it isn’t OK, period really. Regardless of when I started or how fine I or you might have turned out. That’s why I tell them don’t bother. It’s the wrong kind of advice because you can just never know. I would not be behaving responsibly. Your life will not be seriously diminished if you don’t ever try pot or trip on shrooms. But if you develop a serious dependence on alcohol or drugs you and everyone that cares for you are in for hard times ahead.

Needs2know

25

My, my, this topic DOES get heated, doesn’t it?

My experience comes from:

  1. 20+ years working with ex offenders, 75%+ have documented substance abuse issues.
  2. Went to college from 1972 - 76, a period when much casual use of drugs went on. Many of my friends played with a variety of stuff. Includes a 5 year marriage to a sober alcoholic.
  3. being raised by a (now deceased) alcoholic mother
  4. about 8 years hanging out with the AA/Alanon/Alateen/Alapet crowd. Many friends from this crowd.
  5. Having a 16 year old son who attends an inner city school.
  6. In addition to personal friends who have used etc, I also have personal close friends who work in substance abuse treatment.
  7. Some coursework and studies on fundementals of substance abuse counseling.

IMHO, most often Amedeus, your statements will do little, if anything to sway your friends from trying stuff.

Will everyone who tries stuff ruin their life? Of course not.
Will everyone who tries stuff ** risk**arrest, addiction etc? Of course, in varying degrees.

It is, however, my strong recommondation that:

  1. You absolutely refuse to be around while they are using. at all. Arrests can come at any time, and all get arrested. When the cops come in the door, drugs have a funny way of moving from one person’s pocket to someone else’s handy coat or car or whatever. Also proximity will also mean that you may be searched as well.

  2. In addition, I made it a rule that I would not transport any of my kid’s friends if I thought they were high. No appeal process there. I will NOT take the risk of transporting some one under the influence.

  3. Let them know that their friendship means a lot to you, but not as much as your personal safety, freedom etc.

My son didn’t believe me. He had a “friend” who was using (just marijuana he thought, it turned out cocaine was there, too). The “friend” got caught with drugs and paraphenalia in school. The “friend” named my son as the owner of the crack pipe. as a result, my son’s locker, back pack etc. was also searched, they found a set of needle nose pliers (he used to put the leads into mechanical pencils), he ended up with a 3 day suspension and they threatened to charge him with possession of a weapon (a felony, which would have expelled him from school for a year). He believes me now.

Does this little story mean the same will happen to everyone? Of course not. No annecdotal story is offered as proof. However, check back at my list. Trust me, for every example you have of some one who’s life WASN’T ruined, I’ll have 10 who were.

26

Thank you Wring…the voice of experience and rationality.

Needs2know

27

That’s not how I define the distinction between hard and soft drugs. That’s how medical science defines it.

Uh, that’s because most of your experience comes from working with people who already have problems. There are plenty of people who use drugs and have no problem with them, but feel no need to make that information public - to you or to anyone. I know quite a few drug users who are very private about their use, simply because they’re scared of getting busted.

Yeah, brilliant idea. Let them go drive themselves and kill somebody. :rolleyes:

I agree. But I also don’t think it’s okay to lie about dangers that often don’t exist. 50% of kids try pot before they finish high school. That’s a fact. You can’t avoid it. Tell them the truth about all drugs and they’ll be less likely to try the hard ones. You lie, you lose their trust. Kids aren’t stupid.

28

Neutron - look again at my list of sources. Yes, great amounts come from professional experience with folks who have admitted problems, but there’s also significant numbers of others, too. The point I was making was NOT that all drugs are bad, all those who use go bad etc. etc. etc. The point I was making was while anecdotal stories do NOT **prove ** there will be problems in any individual case, but your Anecdotal stories also do NOT **prove ** that there ** won’t ** be problems, either.

Also re: your “:rolleyes: Yeah, brilliant idea. Let them go drive themselves and kill somebody”

I will NOT transport a child under the influence. Why? I will NOT take on the responsibility of watching that they do not harm themselves while in my care. Ain’t my kid. If it was a question of me driving them or them driving themselves, I would contact their parents to come collect them. I refused to transport a friend of my sons to a “haunted house” when the kid was stoned. I left him at his house, thank you. Now, if he ended up getting himself hurt 'cause he couldn’t walk without assistance, it is NOT going to be MY responsibility.

29

Leave it alone Wring…Neutron is practically a kid. I looked at his/her profile. I’d be willing to bet he’s barely 25 I know he’s under 30. Not quite long enough yet for him to have seen a few of his buddies wreck marriages, neglect their kids, lose jobs and licenses, or spend their Friday nights in group.

Needs2know

30

Try 22, and no, I never said all drugs are harmless. I said the harms of certain drugs are greatly exaggerated. My age has no bearing on this discussion, and frankly, I find that attitude condescending. Yes, I’ve seen people fall to addiction. I watched a friend steal her own mother’s wedding ring to support a coke habit. Another stole his mom’s car to sell for crack. I agree that it’s heartbreaking and I’m not sure how you’re interpreting my posts to mean that all drugs are good.

My point is (and always was) that I have never seen this type of thing happen with pot or psychedelics. Ever heard of a pot whore? Neither have I. That’s why I’m saying that the distinction between hard and soft drugs should be made crystal clear to kids. It’s not nearly as black and white as public educators make it seem. Do you agree?

31

I already gave my advice to the OP – that was the first thing I did in my first post. But here, in a place dedicated to fighting ignorance, I was and am unwilling to let slide some of the tripe that has been posted.

For those who wish to skip the diatribe below, I’ll rephrase the basic advice: Don’t try to preach to your friends on the evils of drugs. They’ve heard it before and they’ll hear it again and they obviously either don’t believe it or have chosen to ignore it.

If you’re truly concerned about their behavior, then look at it closely. Are there actual problems, or are you just worried in general because ‘everyone knows drugs are bad’? If you can’t find any actual problems, chances are good that you don’t have any real point to make with them, other than the generic ‘drugs must be bad because someone said so’ that they’ve already heard. Obviously if their drug use IS causing problems, you’d want to mention that to them - although you shouldn’t get your hopes up about the results. If you feel they have or are developing a SERIOUS problem (i.e., can’t function, are out of control, are unable to realize the extent of their habit, etc.) then you should seriously consider speaking to an adult who might be able to help you do something more than talk.
My best suggestion: If you can’t point out specific problems caused by their drug usage, you can still approach it from a viewpoint of responsible and appropriate behavior and decision-making in general. Discussion of how to make responsible decisions, appropriate and inappropriate behavior, etc., could help your friends see their habits from a different perspective and make them rethink their choices. If you approach them on a ‘we’ basis (e.g., that you also make bad decisions and choices and could use their advice and feedback) rather than on a ‘you’ basis (e.g. ‘you evil druggie scum had better quit or else’), your chances of getting them to listen and respond positively are much higher.

Or, if it bothers you that much, do as other posters have suggested and refuse to associate with them after explaining why you’ve made that decision.
Of course, wring’s point has some merit - you do want to consider the possibility that YOU, an innocent bystander, may well be convicted of a felony for doing nothing more than being in the presence of someone who sometimes uses drugs. Great system we’ve got, huh?
Now then, for something completely different…

32

I am NOT advocating drug use - I am advocating a frigging REALITY CHECK for pete’s sake.

Some people in our country can not handle marriage. Due to whatever problems or reasons, they are unable to sustain a relationship. Nonetheless, many of these people marry. Quite a few of them marry repeatedly. Many more people remain in marriages and/or relationships that are harmful and destructive, that make everyone involved miserably unhappy, that are frequently physically dangerous to one or more members of the family. Many of these people marry, remarry or remain married because they can’t stop: they don’t know how to change their habits, they don’t believe that they have a problem (it’s always someone else’s fault), they believe that they can not survive without a marriage or relationship, etc. etc. etc.

These ‘marriage-addicts’ cause great harm to themselves and their marriage partners, they cause great harm to their children, they often ruin many lives (their own & those of their several families) due to their behavior.

Using the reasoning from several posters in this thread, we should outlaw marriage. Since a fairly high percentage of people have some problems with relationships and a small percentage have huge problems, we should not allow anyone to participate in marriage. We should throw in jail anyone who marries, regardless of whether or not that individual has an actual problem. Rather than helping people learn how to have healthy relationships, we should simply ban any information that suggests that a marriage might be successful and worthwhile. We should always be appalled and astounded that anyone would ever consider having any sort of long-term relationship at any point in their lives.

Rather than teach our children how to make relationships work for them and how to create and maintain a successful marriage, we should simply tell them repeatedly that marriage is always evil and wrong and that they should never have anything to do with it. That only losers and fools get married, because no one knows who can handle it and who can’t until they try - and once you’re married, it’s too late, you can’t undo it. We should lie to them and tell them that any sort of intimate relationship is exactly the same as marriage, so don’t ever get close to anyone. We should consistently tell them that relationships will drag you down into unspeakable evil, and that marriage is equivalent to death - so JUST SAY NO, kids.
Absurd? Yes it is, in fact. Just as absurd as the same reasoning is when applied to the use of drugs.

Drugs are NOT inherently evil. Drugs do not MAKE people do bad things. Yes, some drugs can be dangerous. Yes, some drugs impair your judgement and abilities. Yes, some drugs are physically addictive, and yes, some drugs are mentally addictive for some people. But drugs are not equal in their effects or their dangers, and most drugs are very useful when used appropriately. Many drugs are not harmful when used recreationally, if used appropriately and in moderation. Much of the damage attributed to drugs in our society is caused by the War on Drugs and the accompanying Big Brother mentality and doublespeak, not by the drugs themselves.

The totally artificial divide between ‘bad’ illegal drugs and ‘good’ legal drugs is just that - a totally artificial line drawn primarily for political purposes.
I most certainly do not advocate drug use, definitely not by children nor by teens. What I do advocate is the pragmatic realization that drugs ARE available to children and teens and adults and that truthful information about drugs is often NOT available to those same children and teens and adults – and that both of these facts are due primarily to our insane societal frenzy on this subject. I advocate the pragmatic realization that there is a strong probability that many if not most teens/young adults WILL experiment with some mind-altering/mood-altering substance at some point, and that lying about drugs will NOT change that fact. I advocate teaching children responsible behavior, including the responsible use of drugs – and that means when NOT to use them as well as how to use them appropriately.
The use of recreational drugs seems to be an inherent part of human nature. Not every individual likes/uses drugs, but every human culture has developed at least one. (If you know of any human culture in any period that has/had NO mind-altering/mood-altering chemicals, please send me the information. I’ve never been able to find one.)

Prohibition by fiat does not work. It has never worked, it will never work. That prohibition does not work has been repeatedly proven by experiment. The War on Drugs is not only failing miserably in achieving its goals, it is actively causing harm to our society.

Drug abuse is more often a SYMPTOM of problems than the cause. The War on Drugs has served one purpose nicely - that of distracting our country and our people from actually working to SOLVE many of the problems of which drug abuse can be a symptom.

I know a lot of people. I know a lot of people who have done drugs. They know even more people, many of whom have done drugs. I guarantee that for every horror story you can dredge up, I can find 10 stories of people who don’t have a problem. So?

33

The concept of gateway drugs is a myth. Anti-drug groups have been trying to prove this for decades and have only succeeded in disproving it (even if they won’t admit it). But there are a couple of kernels of truth in that idea.

(1) If you LIE TO YOUR CHILDREN and tell them that all drugs are inherently evil and anyone who takes any kind of drugs will die or go to prison or some equivalent thereof, then they will eventually figure out that you’ve lied. When they realize that you’ve lied to them about marijuana, they’ll figure you lied to them about the rest of it too. So obviously, heroin isn’t a problem, because YOU ARE A LIAR when it comes to drugs, right?

(2) If you refuse to teach your children any concept of responsible drug use, if your only answer is ‘DRUGS BAD’, then sure enough, they will never learn how to behave responsibly in these situations - including the responsible use of legal drugs. If having a drink or taking is toke is so evil that they are irreparably lost, then why not just go ahead and get wasted if they’ve gone that far? If getting high is a crime and drinking is a crime, why not go ahead and drive - after all, it’s just another crime, isn’t it? And they’ve already ruined their lives and are on the verge of death anyway by taking drugs at all, so why worry about a little thing like a carwreck?
Sorry, but this particular brand of stupidity drives me nuts. If you’re going to spew the standard propaganda dished out by the feds and the schools, yeah, I’ll get on your case. Since a great deal of the information they hand out is blatantly false (and they know it, but continue to promote it anyway), this board - dedicated to fighting ignorance - is NOT the place for it.

Don’t believe me? Do some web-surfing. Look up one of the nearly dozen studies done over the past decade on the DARE program and its ilk. Those programs do NOT substantially affect drug use at best and, at worst, actually increase drug use among program participants.

The most effective drug education seems to be directed peer group dicussion. Such programs generally work on improving self-esteem, promoting responsible behavior, and encouraging informed, reasoned, RATIONAL decision-making.

Giving kids good information and the life skills needed to make use of it will help prevent drug abuse. Lying to kids just makes them think you’re a liar. Amazing concept, ain’t it!

My mother’s first husband abused her and her kids, mentally and physically. He repeatedly threatened them at gunpoint. He eventually disappeared and left her alone with two children; she got a divorce by public notice. This was at a time in this country when women were supposed to put up with whatever it took to stay married, when divorcee was synonymous with ‘loose woman’.

Oh, must of been fscked up on drugs, right? WRONG. He was just a frigging nutcake <expletive deleted>. Point? PEOPLE make bad decisions and do evil things. Drugs may contribute to bad judgement and evil behavior, but drugs don’t CAUSE those problems. And PEOPLE are the ones who decided to use drugs badly in the first place.
My mother is a long-term prescription drug addict. She was addicted for most of my childhood. Obviously a total loser, a bad mother, an evil person, right? WRONG. She worked full time, was happily married (second husband), reared four children, was PTA president for years and was instrumental in starting the Gifted/Talented program in the schools here, among many, many other accomplishments. If you’d met her, you would never have known that she was on daily doses of a highly (physically) addictive, mind/mood-altering substance.

She is currently addicted to a different prescription drug, has been for years and will be for the rest of her life. It allows her to function when she couldn’t otherwise. She will have to take it or one of its near relatives until she dies (or decides to quit living and sit in bed until her body catches on). Under the current Drug War climate, she has to continually fight with doctors, pharmacists, and the government because the drugs she takes are <gasp, oh the horror!> physically addictive painkillers. Oh, no, can you imagine the trauma? She is physically addicted to a substance that she will have to take for the rest of her life! And you’d never know if she didn’t tell you.
Point? People can and do live quite reasonable lives when addicted to drugs, if society and the cops will give them a chance. There are many similar stories of folks with serious drug addictions, whose problems were caused by the DRUG WARS, not the drugs.

34

When I was you’re age, we worked 28 hours a day in the freezing rain, snow and hail! We got double-As in all our classes, or our dad would run us over with bulldozers! You kids these days, so lazy and unmotivated. You’ve got it easy!

35

Your, you’re, whatever. I’m obviously unmotivated to preview. Must be all the drugs. :rolleyes:

36

You are right in that it isn’t black and white. Keep in mind, I date back to the very, very first anti drug films made for teens (Sonny and Cher saying “don’t do dope, kids, it isn’t hip”- like ** that ** worked), and I’m a distinct disbeliever in the DARE program in particular

Doesn’t matter to me how old ya are. But remember that “anecdotal information neither proves nor disproves”. So, when you state “I’ve never heard of a pot whore” that certainly does not prove that it never happens. Other’s numbers of people they personally know who’ve recreationally used drugs and not had a problem is one piece of information. My scads of stories (both personally AND professionally) where in some cases it was huge problem and in others not so huge is another piece of information.

**NEITHER ** taken alone should be used to prove or disprove how drugs will effect ** any ** individual in the future. However, please note that I’m not the one saying it’ll always happen either way. Not even predicting which will happen for any individual. I’m merely saying that pot alone CAN cause serious problems for SOME people.

No pot whores? well, these are certainly close (and NO, not all of them were clients):

There’s the 40 year old dishwasher. He has held 5 jobs in the last year, lived in 4 different places. All of his possesions wouldn’t fill up a Pinto (not that he has a car naturally)

One guy I know has a lifestyle that includes: at least 2 months per year in jail, at least 4 months per year in homeless shelters or sleeping outside, his monthly budgeting always includes what he can get for selling his plasma twice a month. Why? 'cause he refuses to stop smoking pot long enough to pass a drug screen for a job that will pay him more than $6 per hour. I don’t argue with him, since he doesn’t complain about any of the above.

Another guy, lost his home, had all of his possessions in his car, which got searched at work due to a theft there, and ended up with a felony pot conviction and lost his job over it as well (it was a hospital, they objected to him having illegal drugs on their premises). Please note his homelessness which led to the arrest was due to his spending his $$ of pot vs. rent. He was 23, and up til then hadn’t ever been arrested.

Another woman who chose to buy pot vs. pay anything on her about to be repossessed home.

OR the straight doper who was busy posting here about if he would flunk a drug test based on his smoking pot last weekend. Please note, he was being drug tested because of a conviction for drunk driving. He certainly didn’t feel that pot was a problem for him (although he risked his freedom for it).

But when I see someone IN jail and planning to smoke dope as soon as they leave as “celebration”, even tho’ they KNOW they’ll be tested, I have a rough time seeing pot as “not ever a problem”. I will grant you that it doesn’t create a serious problem for everyone. But to deny that it ever, all by itself creates a problem for SOME people, because it hasn’t for anyone in our immediate pool of acquaintences is well, illogical.

I’m not your mom, probation agent, employer etc. I don’t personally care which decision you make, as long as you are willing to accept the possible consequences. But, I also would request that you stop claiming that since you don’t personally know anyone who had a problem and just used pot or pyschadelics that it can’t possibly happen.

37

I feel like I’ve gone through all this a couple of weeks ago (like here), but I’ll reiterate a couple of points.

  • Although alcohol and tobacco are legal, there are age restrictions on their sale. I know that kids still get hold of these, but that’s not the point - the point is that society recognises that people under a certain age can be damaged quite badly by using substances that may be less harmful for older people. Before the age of 18, the fact that the body is still growing means that it is particularly vulnerable to the ill effects of drugs, and when this is combined with mental and emotional immaturity (and I don’t mean this as a personal slight, just a statement of fact), this is why it is particularly worrisome that children use drugs.

  • People who use drugs and talk about how harmless they are, are lying just as much as authority figures who say that all drugs will lead to mental and physical ruin. Anybody can selectively use studies or anecdotes to support a thesis, but if you accept that even for 1 in 10 people, taking drugs will have a bad effect on their lives, young people should be made well aware of all the actual risks if they are going to make a semi-informed opinion (I say semi, because young people still believe that nothing bad will happen to them, and that they’re immortal).

All my other arguments are in the other thread, and I can’t be bothered going over them again here.

HenrySpencer.

38

You’re that old?!?!??!!! I had no idea! :eek:

Oh, those films. I thought you mean the 30’s classics…

:stuck_out_tongue:

39

I wear it well. :stuck_out_tongue:

40

Very reasonably and nicely put Henry…my point exactly only not as eloquent. Regardless of when any of us started using drugs, it is irresponsible of us to advocate or even down play their dangers to young people. Especially based on anctecdotal evidence and limited anctecdotal evidence at that.

I also do not give a rat’s ass if anyone here feels condescended too because of their age. Experience and the wisdom that comes with it does make a big difference. You will all know when you reach that point. Right now many of you are casting around for justification for your attitudes and behavior and your observations are simply not based on enough knowledge or experience. Especially in this context. You have no right to tell this young man that recreational drug use is fine. He is someone else’s child. He is a young person that needs to know the truth, and the truth is that when you experiment with drugs or even take a drink you are taking a risk. Don’t preach to me about underlying problems. That’s bullshit too. It’s all about attitude. Maybe you handle you high school drug kicks just fine, but a couple of years down the road college gets tough or working sucks so …Nobody starts out to be an alcoholic or a crack head. Everyone thinks they can handle it and some do.

I refuse to argue with a couple of smart ass know it all’s that haven’t got a fucking clue. But it would be nice if you would take a little responsiblity for the impact your words might have on someone else. Go roll yourself a blunt and shut the hell up.

Needs2know