Justification for using drugs

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
41

I agree with both sides of this issue.

Pot should be legal…it almost is in Canada. Our deficit (not to mention the national debt) would disappear within a year.

I can also see the “it makes you lazy” arguement.

I can also see the “you’re probably already lazy” arguement.
I have smoked pot and no doubt will smoke pot again. I’m successful, a family man, responsible…so on and so on.
You probably need to be predisposed to bad behavior, if pot is going to screw with your life.

Who knows…maybe coffee will screw you up…if you’re predisposed to screwing up.

42

Yeah, that’s appropriate for MPSIMS. :rolleyes: If you can’t keep your anger in check, maybe this forum isn’t appropriate for you. Or maybe you just need a joint or something.

Now, read this and read it again, and maybe even a third time, since you seem to have quite a reading comprehension problem. I never claimed any drug was harmless. Got that? You want me to repeat it slowly, syllable by syllable? I said that psychedelics are not all that harmful. This information comes from a Psychology of Substance Abuse professor at a major university, in addition to numerous medical studies. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone on this board claim that any drug was totally harmless. Got that?

http://marijuana.newscientist.com

World Health Organization study concludes that pot is safer than alcohol or tobacco.

I could dig up some refs on the safety of psychedelics, but you’d probably just ignore them and go on another gateway drug diatribe. So it’s really not even worth my time.

Your evidence is nothing but anecdotal. I have yet to see you link to a single study. Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black?

43

Neutron Star : checked out your site. yep, it has links to studies. Not quite an objective look, but, I’ll let that pass.

The OP wanted to have some idea of what to say to friends who were considering using “drugs” (unspecified), to deter them from that.

My position has been: Futile to attempt to do that. Better to simply say “I can’t be around you while you’re doing this, I still care about you”. And gave reasons why.

all of the mood altering recreational substances we’ve been discussing have risks.

To say that “they do less harm than alcohol or tobacco” is not relevant to me, nor, I think, to this discussion. The question was NOT ‘Which drugs do the least amount of potential damage so I can try and get my friends to use those instead of more harmful substances’, the OP was instead trying to get his friends not to risk hurting themselves at all.

I’m glad you understand all of these substances HAVE risks. Factors to look at when determining risks include physical harm, addiction (all forms), family problems, job problems, legal problems. And since current law in the US have Pot illegal and alcohol and tobacco legal, it would be foolish to NOT include that fact in determination of risk.

I suspect that had we, as a world society discovered alcohol and tobacco more recently, we may have attempted to regulate it or criminalize it. Interesting thought, don’t know if it can be proved. (yes, I know that some cultures used peyote, cannibis etc. long years ago, but none of the others have gotten the world wide spread that alcohol and tobacco have).

So. A rational discussion of the relative risks hardly ever happens 'cause you have folks make sweeping statements like “ever seen a pot whore? I haven’t” and figure their point is made. That’s why you end up with all of the anecdotal stuff. Studing these substances is difficult since people are rarely truthful about their drug use.

44

Amadeus, ignoring the rest of thses thought out opinions, I can share what I have done/do in your situation.

-I explain up front what I will and will not do, and if I won’t do it I also will not be around while it is done. Sometimes this meant I would leave even if I wanted to stay. Usually it meant my friends had the curtesy to stop or postpone said activities.

-Do your research and add knowledge as trivia. Not statistic triva, chemical triva. Go check out what a cocaine molecule (before and after free basing) is and does. Its not good. Check out chemically what pot does to your brain. Its not all that bad, depending on how much you value said brain. Organic chemistry is good stuff.

-Ask them why they do drugs, share your reasons for not doing them. Prepare to mend friendships. Be nice about it. You still like them, and like being with them, you just want to understand them as people.

Understand that this is about all you can do with out attacking their lifestyle. If they are causeing damage to people other than themselves, or resenting self inflicted damage, you may have reason to attack their lifestyle. If they are happy with how things are working and its not hurting anyone else, there is nothing you can say.

You do get to chose your friends. You do not get to control them.

Hugs!

45

Hey, Amadeus, you still out there or did we scare ya off? Don’t be frightened, just keep your hands in sight at all times and you probably won’t get hurt. :stuck_out_tongue:

Actually, the OP said s/he was looking for “something profound to say to them to really make them think about why they do various things” and “I just need something thought provoking to say, that won’t make me sound like a dope or some sheltered child.”

S/He indicated, in fact, not that s/he was trying to dissuade friends from starting to use some “unspecified” type of drugs, but rather that s/he was trying to get friends, who “dabble in drugs in various degrees” to think again about using “acid, shrooms, etc.”.

The OP also stated quite clearly that s/he doesn’t have a major problem with marijuana.

Judging from the posts, I guess the some of the anti-drug folks couldn’t be bothered to actually read what they were asked for before going off on their rants.

Um, excuse, I’m not going to point specific fingers, but I do want to mention that a lot of the sweeping statements (and some factually incorrect ones, at that) came from your side of the fence. You may have meant your reference to include those, but it doesn’t seem to. And, truth is, you’ve posted mainly personal anecdotes so far. Makes it a bit difficult to maintain moral high ground when you’re doing the same thing you’re complaining about.

However, I actually do appreciate your restraint and reason on this topic, wring. I can agree with a number of your points, you’ve almost agreed with one or two of mine, and I suspect that we could fairly quickly reach agreement on quite a few others if we were engaged in a quiet conversation, despite the obvious differences in personal experience. I can imagine a cordial, informative and most entertaining debate. Doubt it will happen here, though. :wink:

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neutron star, sorry. I wanted to help more, but I can’t actually reply to that one post. I can’t type while I’m laughing that hard. Besides, there’s really no way to answer properly outside the Pit, and I don’t think it merits that. :rolleyes:

46

Redtail, please note that I’ve used anecdotal stories when faced with statements like “I’ve never seen a pot whore”

AND stated that such stories, while may be illuminating on different points, do NOT prove anything, except maybe that the extreme positions on BOTH sides, are not always correct.

The differences you point out from my paraphrasing the OP vs. the OP aren’t all that significant. When some one says “gee you should think about that decision you made” they aren’t implying that the decision was so good you should pat yourself on the back, but rather that upon further reflection, you may alter that position.

Anti drug? Moi? Well, in some ways it’s tough - I spent alot of years having to bust people for drinking etc. But, frankly, my stance in my personal life has been:

A. Adult friends of mine who do not ask for my advice, don’t get it.

B. If an Adult friends of mine has displayed behavior which I feel will put me at risk, they may (I repeat MAY) at some point not be invited to my home (I’ve had folks accidently drop stuff in my home, car etc. I’m not interested in getting busted for that).

C. For exactly two people in my personal life, I made it a point to not have booze available to them if they visited. One ultimately died in connection with alcoholism, the other committed suicide.

D. At different points in my life, I have experimented with a variety of stuff. As a personal choice, I didn’t care for the MJ and variations, and pills weren’t fun either. Never saw the entertainment value in getting drunk, and nowdays rarely even drink (unrelated issues).

E. For people who are not personal friends of mine, I have no opinion. For clients, I offer to them information (doing drugs while you’re job seeking may negatively impact your ability to secure employment, for example).

I have been outraged for ** years ** at the efforts of our government in the “war on drugs”. It made no sense to me ever to lock some one up for 3 years for selling $60 worth of grass. Spare me. Nor for the friend who’s criminal involvement was that he gave a ride to the airport to a friend of a family member. He’s facing up to 5 years on that (and the government confiscated the $1000 in cash they’d saved for the wife’s dentures). So, I’m not sure the title of “anti drug” fits me.

I AM, however, very vocal, when I hear folks claim the “pot never hurt anyone” type of thing, or “I’ve done various drugs for years and never had a problem, and so do all my friends” when these statements are offered, not as anecdotal bits of evidence to be weighed, but as offer of proof that drugs “aren’t that bad”. So, I feel obliged, on those occasions to trot out my varied lists of anecdotals.

the truth is, it is impossible to predetermine if any selected individual will experience problems associated with drug use.

47

Wonderful again Wiring…and I did indeed attempt to anser the OP…after catching myself going off on a tangent in the beginning.

I’ve used recreational drugs off and on for …the aniversary of my first pot experience 30 years ago will be this coming Spring. Has MY drug use seriously or detrimentally impacted my life or lets say the lives of family…yes, but only indirectly.

My personal behavior since giving birth to my first child has always been as responsible as I could maintain. But my tolerant attitude toward other people’s drug and alcohol problems has lead me into trouble. That’s why I say you must make personal choices and monitor your own behaviors and attitudes. You must weigh consequences not just for the risks you might take but for the risk others might take who’s actions may effect you. Because we are not alone in this world, not usually anyway. And a spouse, child, friend, or close loved one can through their behaviors also effect the lives around them.

That is why I now choose to avoid the company or close contact of problem drinkers and drug users whenever I can. I have weighed the consequences and I don’t like them. I am also not willing to put myself in the position of being hurt by someone else’s risky behavior.

Needs2know

48

In our society, drugs(legal or illegal, addictive or non-addictive, dangerous or not) will be:

  1. Never used by a few people.
  2. Always abused by a few people.
  3. Used experimentally, occasionally, or in moderation by the vast majority of people.

Always has been; always will be.

49

This things still going? Pretty hot topic.

BTW, what does “OP” stand for? “Original Post,” “Original Poster,” or something else?

50

Outpatient

51

wring,

.
Absolutely. The same reason that many of the anecdotes were posted - to provide contradictory information to extreme statements. Perhaps I misread your comment - you seemed to be complaining about the use of anecdotal examples, while posting many such yourself. That apparent hypocrisy was the reason for my statement; my apologies if I misinterpreted.

Ah, now here we disagree. I think that the OP was SPECIFICALLY asking for something more than and different from the usual ‘tell them that drugs are bad and they shouldn’t ever ever do drugs because it can screw up your whole life and here’s all the proof <insert various stories> so if they won’t quit then you won’t be friends anymore’ line that is standard fare on anti-drug propaganda, which is why I made the suggestions that I did. IME, using the standard lines is often worthless, especially with teens, because they’ve heard it so many times before. However, approaching them from a more generalized angle can work if there’s any chance at all. However, lacking further input from Amadeus, that’s really a matter of interpretation, so your opinion’s as good as mine, eh?

Just for the record, I used the phrase ‘folks’ intentionally.

See, I said we weren’t so far apart as it seemed. :smiley: (I hope that my rephrasing above was a fairly acceptable assessment of your point - sorry if I got too far offtrack.)

Pax?
jamesglewisf - Yes.

52

soitenly.

I’ve been amazed at the relative civility of tone in these drug threads of late, given the nature of the subject.

And, I feel that we’re not in far disagreement in any event.
I, perhaps because of my background, would rather have young people err on the side of avoiding stuff, vs. experimentation

53

[hijack]
Needs2know, I’d be interested in emailing you about some things, if you don’t mind. My email is available below
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