I just think that it undercuts our high ground if we want to call others out for calling someone by a name they no longer go by. I get the nuance you are putting out here, but it is very nuanced, and it’s not an argument I want to try to have with someone who uses that as ammunition.
Seems easier to just avoid even the appearance of hypocrisy here.
Caitlyn Jenner has some pretty odious views, too. I can think of all kinds of nasty names to call her, but I wouldn’t call her B***e.
Ah yes, the poetry of Kanye is where his genius can be quantified. Perhaps a better example:
Interesting. I am a late 80s/early-mid 90s hip hop fan, and I freely admit around post-95 I lost interest in the genre. I have students who insist Kendrick Lamar is a genius, and I get there’s something there, but I am not trying to seek out his music. I watched Kendrick on SNL and was kind of “what’s this about?” But play some EPMD, Gang Starr, Public Enemy, Eric B & Rakim and I’m all in.
I agree as a rapper, Ye is not that impressive. But I can appreciate that his production and remixing skills are strong. Like DJ Premier or Pete Rock, there’s a distinguishable Ye feel to his production. It’s not my thing but I can recognize it.
Having said that… I am so over “Ye is a genius.” Talented, definitely influential in a sector of music, but genius suggests that the work transcends genre. I’m not a country fan, but Dolly Parton’s lyrical ability is IMO hard to dismiss. One of her songs was sung by Whitney Houston and is known by everyone.
TheCuse was able to express what I’ve believed for some time. From what I understand, his mother was indulgent and fed his megalomania, and since her death he’s been truly unhinged. I also think his logic is that he’s such an original thinker, he’s able to take controversial topics and shed new light on them. In some ways, he’s not completely unlike academics - we often think deeply and bring new angles and nuance to commonly held conventionally wisdom, but he’s missing the step of actually reading deeply.
When I learned his mom was a professor, I kind of got it. What she could have taught him is creative thinking is valuable and can lead to new insights, but that comes after one has spent a lot of time learning. And it’s continual, and rooted in humility. I don’t think there’s a humble bone in Ye’s body.
To be clear, I don’t think there’s much nuance in anti-Semitism or Nazism.
In this case, it goes far, far beyond a question of “whether we like [someone] or not”. It’s that Kanye, or “Ye”, or whatever other moniker he feels he should be called, is an utterly reprehensible hateful bigot who deserves not one modicum of respect. Occasionally someone goes so far off the deep end that they lose the right to the basic respect that we generally afford to others as a matter of course. Someone whose Hitler worship even got Alex Jones to push back would be one such example. That is all.
When they do come up with an anti-asshole pill I hope there is a generic version available.
mmm
Not calling someone by their legal name isn’t the same as purposefully misgendering someone. It’s not the same as misogyny, racism, transphobia, homophobia, or any other despicableness.
Calling him “Hitler’s Anal Leakage” or anything else questioning his intelligence or tying him to the Nazis is OK as an insult, but indifferently referring to him as “Kanye” somehow goes too far? Ridiculous.
And i daresay putting “Kanye West” in the thread title instead of “Ye” allowed more people to know who the thread was even about.
That’s because misgendering is bad, which is what that is doing. Same reason i wouldn’t refer to the subject of this thread as Princess Ye. Simply not using a person’s legal name when referring to them is not the same thing as misgendering.
The problem with slurs is that they attack people other than the target. You have no respect for him, why not call him the n-word? It’s not targeted at other black people, just him, right?
Anyway, that’s my last point to be made here. When it inevitably happens that people misnaming this asshole is used to justify misnaming other people that they don’t like or respect, it’s all on you to explain the nuance to people who refuse to understand nuance.
Can’t we all at least agree that “Ye” is a stupid, stupid name?
The only way it would be stupider is if he called himself The Dial of Destiny.
There’s no nuance. It’s completely straightforward. The problem with misgendering, or racial slurs or the like, is that it is indeed insulting to a whole class of people. Whereas calling an asshole by his well-known name instead of some fanciful moniker that the asshole just invented is only insulting to the asshole, if indeed it could be considered “insulting” at all. But if it is, the asshole in question, as I already pointed out, fully deserves it.
Dial of Density would not take long to catch on.
I’m hearing:
Free speech for me, not for Ye.
That’d be misgendering a person with odious views, whose name change I have been aware of for some time. I manage to avoid mis-gendering Jenner most of the time now, and feel a bit bad about misgendering someone when I slip up.
Me referring to Ye as Kanye (which I will tend to do for a while, since I just got the memo and will need practice) doesn’t misgender him, it’s just me not keeping current with his latest pronouncements. Many/most of which are odious. I do NOT feel bad about those slips. Just as I didn’t feel bad about referring to a certain musician as Prince when he no longer considered that his name.
Is the government restricting Ye’s speech?
At first, I thought he was just saying outrageous things to get attention, and he is, but these things are going way beyond that.
Only because he’s an idiot. Maybe people were kinder about the artist formally known as Prince when he did something worse (name wise, not Hitler-wise). There’s nothing inherently obnoxious about the name “Ye.”
Yeah, I don’t see what makes the name “Ye” inherently more “stupid” than, say, “Dre” or “Eminem” or “Twiggy”. Having unusual names is just part of many celebrities’ bread and butter.
With all the legitimate reasons to hate on this guy, it seems pointless to me to spend time pushing back on his preferred nomenclature. I mean, nobody has to like the name “Ye”, but it’s very much a side issue.
AIUI Prince Rogers Nelson’s reason for declaring himself ‘The Artist Formerly Known As Prince’ was to comment on the ridiculous terms of his contract, which prevented him from performing under his birth name. I assume he wouldn’t have had a problem being addressed as Prince by a fan. Correct me if I’m wrong.
Kanye is yet another example of a person who has too much money. No personal filter that should be telling them to shut up, because no one ever disagrees with you. And lots of fans that will forgive you for anything.
There has been a lot of that going around lately.