That was in response to Snoboarder.
Well, that’s the influence that’s recognizable to you, according to the degree of familiarity you achieved with her music. I also think that your definition of influence is not one that I would limit myself to.
My “top 25” is based not necessarily on numbers–on how many artists may or may not copy the influential artist in my list. It’s based on a sense of how fundamental their influence is. The Rolling Stones influenced a huge number of people, but how much did they actually contribute to the “melting pot” of 20th Cent. music? I’m not talking numbers here. I’m talking basic building blocks that other people took up after them.
Subtract Muddy Waters from the Rolling Stones; what are you left with? A lot, still, of course; I’m not saying they’re not up there. I’m just saying to a great extent, the Stones were a conduit for the influence of artists like Muddy Waters–again, just one example; I DO understand that there’s a lot more to the Stones than just their Muddy Waters influence–a conduit, not a source.
My top 25 are not ranked by the number of people they reached; the volume of their voice. But by what they brought to the mix. If someone else took up their recipe and used it to serve more people, that doesn’t change the author of the original recipe.
So, I’d rank Muddy Waters as more influential than the Stones; Marc Bolan as more influential than, well shit, than almost anybody; and Kate, yes, among my top 25, according to the “originality not popularity” sense, which is I how I see influence.
No need to point out here, of course, that for vast swathes of American music consumers, “originality” is always gonna be in reverse proportion to “popularity.” So color me unsurprised that some people disagree with my opinion on Kate.
Wasn’t the point I was trying to make at all. I full realize that ubiquitousness <> “greatness” (whatever that is). My point is that most who are condidered “great” are also at least a little bit exposed. There are exceptions, of course … and sometimes I find those exceptions jarring.
“Write off”? 
Where’d that come from?
…
What I’m trying to get across is apparently harder to communicate than I thought.
There are a handful of artists like this, BTW – it’s not just Kate Bush. Tom Waits, Joan Armatrading, Ani DiFranco … for some people, they’re huge. But for so many more, it’s like “Huh? Heard of them … never actually heard their music, though. But the critics tell me I should like 'em :shrug:”
Are you kidding? As someone who did a radio show for many years featuring female vocals (called “Suspended In Gaffa” using that song by Kate as my theme song) I can tell you that yes, there’s a HUGE “school” of Kate Bush-like singers out there, whether they sound like Kate or not. Spend a bit of time at http://suspended-in-gaffa.com and at least listen to the short clips of music for the shows. That’s but a pond in the ocean. I have over 1000 LPs and around 1500 CDs, 90% of them female artists, at least 60% of them influenced in one way or another by Kate Bush (most of the rest pre-date Kate).
In any case, a musician doesn’t have to be a Kate Bush-like singer to have been influenced by Kate.
Example (from 2003):
It’s not accessible for American ears, that’s true. The rest of the world didn’t find find songs like “Wuthering Heights,” “The Man With The Child In His Eyes,” or “Babooshka” all that inaccessible. It was only when it came to The Dreaming that she got tuned out, but then, she chose to release one of the weirdest songs in the universe as the first single (the title song). I still chuckle at her balls for doing that. Strangely enough, as lissener already referenced, it was The Dreaming album that really caught the attention of the US college/underground radio stations and started her following here. Well, Saturday Night Live started it, but TD kicked it into gear.
Just for the hell of it, here are some Chart numbers:
Country codes: UK = United Kingdom, US = USA, G = Germany, F = France,
Cnd = Canada, NL = Netherlands, Aus = Australia, SF = Finland,
Dk = Denmark, I = Italy, Swe = Sweden, Irl = Ireland, Isr = Israel,
J = Japan, B = Belgium, NZ = New Zealand, Bra = Brazil, Arg = Argentinia,
SA = South Africa
UK: BMRB/Gallup
USA: Billboard Hot 100 (singles) / Top 200 (albums)
Germany: Musikmarkt / Mediacontrol
Australia: Aria
**Singles:**
**Wuthering Heights:**
UK, NL, B, NZ, Aus: 1
G, F, Bra, Arg, SA, Dk, Swe, SF: top 10
**The Man With The Child In His Eyes:**
UK: 6
US: 85
**Moving:**
J: 1
**Hammer Horror:**
UK: 44
**Wow:**
UK: 14
**On Stage:**
UK: 10
**Breathing:**
UK: 16
**Babooshka:**
UK 5
Aus: 1
I: top 10
G: 14
F: 3
Cnd: top 10
**Army Dreamers:**
UK: 16
**December Will Be Magic Again:**
UK: 29
Isr: top 10
**Sat In Your Lap:**
UK: 11
**The Dreaming:**
UK: 48
UK (MM): 28
**Suspended In Gaffa:**
Most of Europe, Cnd, Aus: top 10
**There Goes A Tenner:**
UK: did not chart
**Ne T'Enfuis Pas:**
F: top 30
**Running Up That Hill:**
UK, G: 3
UK (12" charts): 2
US: 30
US (12" chart): 21
NL: 6
**Cloudbusting:**
UK: 20
**Hounds of Love:**
UK: 18
**The Big Sky:**
UK: 37
**Don't Give Up:**
UK: 9
US: 72
Aus: top 10
**Experiment IV:**
UK: 23
**Ferry Aid - Let It Be:**
UK: 1
**The Sensual World:**
UK: 12
NL: 17
US (Billboard: post modern airplay chart): 6
G: 29
SF: 12
Aus: 44
I: 19
**This Woman's Work:**
UK: 25
**Love & Anger:**
UK: 38
UK (gallup mid-week): 23
US (Billboard: modern rock airplay chart): 1
**Rocket Man:**
UK (gallup): 12
US (Billboard; modern rock tracks chart): 11
F: 45
Aus: 2
**Rubberband Girl:**
UK (gallup): 12
UK (MRIB): 7
Cnd (Record single sales chart): 18
Irl: 1
SF (local charts in Tampere): 4
Isr: 26
US (Billboard: Modern Rock): 7
US: 88
G: 65
Europe (MTV Eurochart): 19
**Eat The Music:**
US (Billboard: modern rock): 10
**Moments of Pleasure:**
UK: 26
**The Red Shoes:**
UK: 21
**The Man I Love:**
UK: 22
**And So Is Love:**
UK: 26
**Albums:**
**The Kick Inside:**
UK: 3
**Lionheart:**
UK: 6
US: 201 (in '84)
**Never for Ever:**
UK: 1
G: 17
F: 7
**The Dreaming:**
UK: 3
US: 157
**Kate Bush (mini-EP):**
US: 148
**Hounds of Love:**
UK, NL, Irl: 1
US: 30
G: 2
**The Whole Story:**
UK: 1
US: 74
Aus: 28
Swe: 48
F: 11
SF: 10
**The Sensual World:**
UK: 2
US: 43
US (The Gavin Report: College Album chart): 1
Cnd: 16
NL: 8
Europe (Music and Media Pan-European chart): 6
I: 17
Dk: 18
SF: 5
Aus: 25
F: 38
G: 20
**The Red Shoes:**
UK, SF: 2
US: 28
G: 18
NL: 35
Cnd: 13
Europe (Billboard/Music&Media Eurochart Top 100): 6
F (M6: Top Nuggets): 14
**Video tapes:**
**The Single File:**
UK: 1
**The Hair Of The Hound:**
UK: 1
**The Whole Story:**
UK: 1
US: 8
**The Sensual World:**
US: 10
UK (MRIB video music top twenty): 9I didn’t compile those numbers btw, I stole them from the Gaffaweb FAQ.
Yes, but even that article mentions Kate. Perhaps it would be more fair to say that she was the first musical artist to use the wireless mic.
As Athena said, you’re in for a treat. Thank you for reading my long-ass post, and you’re welcome.
I just love the Big Boi quote- “She’s so fucking dope!”
Word.
Hey,
I did not dismiss you or say that your contributions to this thread don’t merit attention. anti-Doppian? talk about a an ad hominem… or was that just an insult?
Kate seems to be able to inspire total love or hate. That is a good thing. She isn’t middle of the road. She is talented and a skillful singer. She just isn’t for everyone.
As far as her subtle influence that you seem to see everywhere. Well it’s up to you to point them out. You are asking us to prove a negative by showing non-influence.
One can plainly see the influence of Quentin Tarentino on the movies.
One can plainly hear the influence of Little Richard on the Beatles.
It is true, that being, in my opinion, blessedly, unaware of Kate’s library of music, I wouldn’t hear her influence in others. But, someone saying, I like her, does not mean that they are influenced by her. Someone saying I listen to her, doesn’t mean it either.
What I said was for the OP to listen and make up their own mind and not be influenced by her fans.
Oh and the bit where you admitted that she made her first impression by giving you a boner when you were 15, doesn’t help your case that she is great. I know all about thinking an artist is fantastic, just because she is really hot.
Um, no I’m not. I have specifically said that such “rules” of debate are nonsensical in a discussion of subjective opinion.
The part where I “admitted” that? The rules of Cafe Society prevent me from having any response whatsoever. Nope, can’t think of one response that wouldn’t get me immediately banned.
Tried the pandora page today – Sexual Healing is what they started out with then had two or three good ones and degenerated into a strict R&B groove. Nothing wrong with that, but the further from the initial song they got, the less interesting the selection got.
eh.
Unsure when I’m going album hunting for th KB stuff, car insurance this week (and CC payments, so, maybe mid-month. I’ll check back with MY observations at that time.
Meanwhile, c’mon, play nice – this isn’t the pit.
You know, this isn’t helpful. I pretty explicitly stayed outside of pit behavior. I, personally, would appreciate it if you would save accusations of pit behavior for actual pit behavior, at least when I’m involved. Thanks. End of hijack.
Except for the part where you questioned my doperhood. YOU made the extrodinary claim of her great influence. extrodinary claims require extrodinary proof. But you didn’t provide the proof, no, first you decided to change the definition of the word influence, now you don’t want to argue the point because ‘it’s silly’ or in other words you can’t.
Yeah, it was her music that you loved.
Well, I’ve never had a boner, being a chick and all, but I do love her music and also think she is quite striking. YMMV, of course!
I didn’t question your doperhood. I pointed out that your dismissal of my opinion for purely ad hominem reasons is contrary to the standard by which discussions of this type are generally expected to play out. I was trying to gently point out that you were making the discussion about personalities–about me–rather than about the topic at hand. You continue to do that.
I made no factual claims, I expressed an opinion. An opinion I have, guess what, learned over the years that some people would not necessarily agree with. It’s not anything that can be “proven” one way or another, and your insistance that it’s my job to do so is nonsensical.
Despite your dogged insistance on making this personal, I will re-read *for *you. The fact that I saw the same 1979 SNL performance and was a fan from the start suggested no sexual context whatsoever. You continue to drive your entire participation in this thread with insultingly personal–and wrong–assumptions, and you continue to be utterly ignorant of the fact that we’re discussing opinions, and not facts.
Raise your hands, everyone who doesn’t know that lissener is gayer than Lucy Ricardo’s apron.
Zebra raises hand
Well ok then.
Btw, I’m a woman, just like EJsGirl. I think Kate’s gorgeous (inside and out), but it’s her music that I tuned into. I didn’t even know what Kate looked like when I first heard her and became hardcore, because it was through a tape compilation.
ddgryphon, don’t feel bad. I’ve been hardcore since 1981, and I don’t much care for her cover of “Sexual Healing” either. I first heard it at a fan convention in London in 1994 (yes, my husband and I flew to London for a fan convention. Twice) and other than just the sheer joy of hearing Kate’s voice, it didn’t do anything for me. She does have covers that I adore (“Rocket Man,” “Candle In The Wind,” “Lord of the Reedy River”) but SH is not among them.
That wasn’t actually intended toward you, and I forgot to add a smiley face, so, my apologies, if my poor attempt at humor came off as a serious statement.
Again, sorry, didn’t mean to burn anyone.
::Borrows Dex’s Whistle, Can’t Get It To Work, Yells Loudly Instead::
Okay, stop. Zebra, lissener and Snowboarder Bo, take your squabble(s) out of this thread, please. If you want to start a thread debating what may or may not constitute a musical influence, go ahead and start one and feel free to link to it within this thread. If you wanna tear each other’s hair out about who was dismissive of whom, do so in the Pit.
Regardless of what you choose, stop the hijacks of this thread and get back to ddgryphon’s OP.
Just to step away from the heated arguments for a minute, I have a question. Mr. singular, a rabid Kate Bush fan, maintains that the “ooooo-up! oooooo-up!” sound that Donna Summer made on one of her hits (Bad Girls, maybe?), and became a mainstay in Disco, was first done by Kate Bush. I, being a more casual fan, don’t remember ever hearing her make this sound, so I don’t know what he’s talking about (and we lost our music collection in a flood, so we can’t check). Can anybody identify where and when she made this sound? Thanks!