I’m not a Democrat, I’m a radical, and the Dems are far too centrist and wimpy. But to your point…
You have outlined some pretty extreme positions there, I think we can toss aside “stoning” without further comment, I see no Republican positions that actually support such. As far as discrimination in housing and employment, the Pubbies seem to be willing to tolerate such discrimination, whereas I would insist they oppose it. Further, I am mindful of the Constitutional right to free association, I am willing to infringe upon that right for a higher good, but not willing to pretend that isn’t what I’m advocating.
The kind of extreme positions you insist we discuss seem absurd to me, I wouldn’t support any group that favored them. Perhaps “inimical” was the wrong word, it seems to have set you off.
Certainly you would be subject to the same discrimination and prejudice. Whether you count yourself a member of the community or not, you are by your being one of them. (Though if you were Ken Mehlman you’d just slather on half a pound of foundation and makeup to cover the freckles and help put “Stop gingers from marrying” initiatives on the ballots.
Neither is it necessary social inclusion. We’re all members of many different communities, some by choice (Straight Dope, a sports team, pilots, whatever) and some by birth (white, American, English speaking, freckled, etc.) and some by chance or choice or happenstance (military, tornado victims, prisoners, labor union members). How active a role we take in any of these is of course a choice, but you’re a member anyway.
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But, by and large, black people consider themselves part of a community, as do latino, etc. They criticize their fellows from a position within that community, Chris Rock, Bill Cosby, etc. This willingness to be absorbed into a larger group doesn’t appear to be as common amongst gay men, and I wonder why.
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There’s plenty of room for individualism within the community. Using blacks, let’s take Henry Louis Gates (the Harvard historian), Shirley Sherrod (the USDA employee made famous last month), Snoop Dogg (open pot smoker and rapper) and Al Sharpton- these four people don’t have that much in common, they have widely varied incomes and educational backgrounds and tastes and experiences.
If you invited them all to the same dinner party and tried to start a conversation on vacations, or books you’ve read or movies you liked or politics or religion, it’d probably be awkward as hell, BUT mention the election of Barack Obama or the recent Laura Schlessinger idiocy or trouble with cops, I can almost guarantee you they all have strong opinions on it and felt both issues- even if not the same as each other- then at least stronger than non-blacks at the same table; it probably accessed more visceral personal experiences for them than the WASPs or Filipino or Jewish guests at the table with whom professionally or in other ways the black guests may have more in common. There is a cord that connects them to each other however, just as there are cords that connect Sherrod to other civil servants, Gates to other academics, Snoop to other potheads and entertainers and Sharpton to other ministers and New Yorkers.
That you’re part of a community doesn’t mean that it is or should be the defining part of your identity- I’m in no particular order an Alabamian, a liberal, an agnostic, gay, narcoleptic, white and a librarian among many other things, none of which in and of themselves define me and none of which are necessarily as important as the others, but it does mean that I should have a feeling of connection to all of the above and while I may disagree with most Alabamians (most of whom are not gay narcoleptic agnostic librarians) it would be wrong and hypocritical of me to view them as one dimensional idiots or work hard to see Alabamians actively discriminated against for federal jobs or what not.
May not make sense, but the point is don’t do drugs. Unless it’s for narcolepsy, in which case I recommend Nuvigil.
I take your point, but I think its a bit off my question. I’m not denying a sense of community, I’m wondering why it seems as though so many gay men, especially gay men of a conservative political mindset, don’t feel compelled to place their community membership above their particular political persuasions. And, just as I said, thats an impression I have, I have no proof whatever, and could abandon that impression under the least evidence, it means very little to me. There are Log Cabin Republicans and there are Black Republicans, but, it seems to me, proportionate to their actual numbers, there are far more of the former than the latter. I wonder why, is all.
Put it another, maybe an improvemenet, maybe not. Here in the People’s Republic of Minnesota, we have, of course, Gay Pride parades. officially sanctioned and well respected. But if everybody in Minneapolis who is gay was in that parade, it would be a lot damned bigger!
Personally I don’t see color. It makes for lots of traffic tickets and pretty much useless when I witness a crime (“The guy was sort of a nondescript color, might have been white or maybe black or Asian…”), but it impresses some people, though I’m not sure what color they are.
He does not have to publicly identify with the community. But he should not do definite and overt harm to it for personal gain. That is different. Denial is probably harming himself but his political actions came at the expense of gays across the country. He was actively supporting and pushing programs and laws that hurt gays. That should not be forgiven.
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Put it another, maybe an improvemenet, maybe not. Here in the People’s Republic of Minnesota, we have, of course, Gay Pride parades. officially sanctioned and well respected. But if everybody in Minneapolis who is gay was in that parade, it would be a lot damned bigger!
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Have you ever marched in a cold state wearing nothing but Speedos and feathers? If you had you wouldn’t have to ask why more don’t.
I’ve never marched in a Gay Pride parade myself, though I’ve been to a few and I’ve certainly nothing against them, but it’s just not my thing. I am however openly gay at work and in my private life* and I think that ultimately pays greater dividends since I could relatively easily pass as straight.
*Well, in fairness I’m out to everybody with one major exception, but that’s a whole other topic related to “You can’t handle the truth!” and a deathbed promise and it’s actually for the benefit of the other person- think “you don’t yell at a sleepwalker”.
While it’s much rarer to be a closet African-American, there have been numerous historical examples of racial “passing” in America, and the moral issues that often ensued. I can’t think of any who passed who assisted in segregationist political activity, though.
If rumors are correct, the reverse was true of Warren G. Harding. He was one of the first presidents to actively speak out against racism and Jim Crow including to mixed audiences in the south. There were rumors during his lifetime and ever since that he had African-American ancestry, and some make a connection.
All of Sally Hemings’ children crossed the color line except for Madison who was darker skinned than his brothers and sister. There are no pics of any of her kids, but this is her grandsonby her son Eston who not only passed but, as the picture shows, was a Colonel in the U.S. army when blacks were not allowed to be commissioned officers. (One of Madison’s sons died at Andersonville, having passed for white [though there were black soldiers at Andersonville as well].)
It’s unknown what happened to Harriet and Beverly Hemings but according to Madison, recounting them as an old man, when they “ran away” from Monticello they both entered white society and had white families in Washington D.C.. It must have been excruciating for them to hear braggarts go on about family connections- “My father-in-law was the revenue commissioner for the district” or “my wife’s brother is a representative from Delaware” without being able to play their “Yeah, how 'bout that, my father was president and wrote the Declaration of Independence and I look just like him- could you pass the potatoes please?”
I just wnat to be on the record as having said that you have got your head screwed so perfectly, that I look forward to and give every post of yours a serious look. If only everyone … Thankyou.
