It’s not like this is out of nowhere. Some people refer to the Oscars as “the gay Super Bowl”, there are a lot of LGBTQ people who will be there and many others watching, there are at least some LGBTQ films and people likely to be nominated, it seems reasonable for people to be concerned that he might make offensive jokes that wouldn’t ruin the night but would make it less fun for a lot of people.
And if he had truly apologized, then this probably wouldn’t have blown up as big. But first he said he wouldn’t apologize, and basically blamed all the people being mad as internet trolls. When he decided to step down he did give his regrets to “the LGBTQ community for my insensitive words from my past” and maybe he’s sincere but it still seems like when a child is forced by their parent to apologize to someone even though they aren’t sorry, just in this case it’s a grown man forced to apologize by his management and publicity team.
Also, some people are acting like this is a witch hunt and he’s going to be burned at the stake, he’s going to be absolutely fine. He’s one of the highest paid stand up comedians in the world, he’s got several upcoming movies and TV shows coming out that he’s acting in or producing, and even if he went and secluded himself in the mountains right now he’d still have more money than any of us could imagine having. I haven’t seen anyone calling for his career to be ended, just some people upset about some things he’s said before and him not seeming to understand what’s wrong about it, and the consequences of that are him losing one high profile gig out of the many he has, that doesn’t seem like the start of any slippery slope to me.
Really, come on, it is *one *major gig that was determined to be more trouble than worth having, it is not like he’s being “fired from his job” – now if there begins some sort of concerted effort to go after him in his general career, we may talk then.
*…“Jesus on a rollerskate, what kind of an ass are you to ask such a question? Please leave.” *
That would be my *honest *response to someone asking me such a question.
I think that’s largely setting up and knocking over a straw man, though hard to say that absolutely on the internet (on the internet there’s almost no argument too simplistic not to fit against some even more simplistic argument on the other side).
It’s a matter of proportion. There’s always plenty of ‘safe space’ to insult all kinds of people, the allowable categories just shift over time (calling religious people idiots is a lot more acceptable now, making fun of homosexuality a lot less, and so on). Especially when it comes to comedy. Although with comedy the range of actual humor is being shrunken in general, and more and more case of refusing to take things as jokes. Is this to the betterment of society? I think it can be debated, but people are not imagining that the general sensitivity level has risen as well as shifted.
The degree of reaction for something of given import has changed I think. And the means (Twitter mobs etc) has changed, perhaps related. Again I don’t think it’s clear this is good, nor an imaginary issue.
But for this specific case it’s like a lot of Hollywood-centric stuff where I can honestly say I don’t care that much. I don’t think Kevin Hart is funny (‘edgy’ doesn’t necessarily mean good). And I don’t watch the Oscars. It’s boring except for next day excerpts of particularly ridiculous self-congratulatory virtue signalling. And there’s been a mismatch generally in recent years between the PC (no scare quotes needed, a very real thing) neo-Puritanical general vibe of Hollywood, and then inviting ‘edgy’ comedians to host their biggest party. Nobody says they have to have that mismatch.
So the particular Oscar aspect I view as mainly not my problem. But again not convinced PC Twitter mobs aren’t becoming a more serious problem for the general idea of free expression, as opposed to govt ‘censorship’ which they obviously are not per se.
He could have. But…if he had, what’s the issue with apologizing again? He could have said “I’m sorry for hurting people. I have changed. I apologize.” But he didn’t do that - instead, he doubled down on his statements and his right to say whatever he wanted.
Perhaps he would have lost the Oscar gig if he had apologized, but we’ll never know because he didn’t (not until after he’d already been removed as host. And even then, it was a trash apology- “I’m sorry if people were hurt” is not the right way to apologize).
Based on this incident, we don’t know what happens when people apologize over and over and over again for a decades old offense. We do know that not even apologizing once will probably lead to a bad outcome. We also know that a halfhearted apology after the outcome will probably not undo the damage.
But shouldn’t there be a statute of limitations? When I was in elementary school we played a playground game called (apologies in advance) “Smear the Queer”*
I loved that game–it was good exercise and the competition was fun. Much moreso than most of the stuff in gym class (dodge ball aside. I also loved that).
Should I be denied a job because I used the word “queer” regularly when I was in my pre-teens? Does it matter that I honestly had no idea that “queer” represented “gay”–I just thought it meant oddball. Like Alice saying the Mad Hatter’s tea party was queer.
I’ve never heard of this Hart guy, so maybe he’s a crazy-assed homophobe. But if his only offense is having a routine he used like 9 years back and he apologized for it, should that be enough?
And let me state without any reservations that homophobia is wrong and as damaging as any other sort of bigotry.
*The game, for those of you too young or non-Americans was:
1: Give a single kid one of those red, rubber dodge ball type balls (a little larger than a soccer ball)
2: Everyone else tries to tackle him/pile on before he reaches the predesignated goal.
Huh–having just now read more of the thread and read Hart’s actual tweets (it was more than a single stand-up act) and his non-apology, I’ll go with the “crazy-assed homophobe” thing I mentioned in my previous post. That said, I still think there should be a statute of limitations that people should consider.
I too have a difficult time believing so many people haven’t heard of Kevin Hart. He is all over TV and film.
Hart won’t apologize again because it will make him look like a sellout to his core black audience. Homophobia is more prevalent in the black community.
All the hosts do, as I recall, is make short jokes in between presentations, and then introduce the next presenter. They don’t really need that, it’s just a way to enliven the ceremony.
Words only have power if we let them. Our feelings are not controlled by other people. If people feel bad about themselves because of jokes then they need to be emotionally stronger not given the power to shut down comedy which brings joy to so many people.
Exactly. If he’d apologized before, why not apologize again? It starts to seem pathological how many people refuse to apologize for something they admit they no longer believe even when it’s for his own benefit
Which is why I enjoy the fact that he was forced into an apology. He thought he could get out of it by quitting the Oscars, but that didn’t work out for him.
I can ignore all the talk of “it happened long ago” because people were willing to let it go, if he apologized. It’s all entirely on him. Unlike with James Gunn–or even several Republicans I knew didn’t mean it.
Why are you even apologizing at all? It’s some shit that *children *did/said decades ago. And even if you did have some inkling about queer = gay, it was an entirely different, unenlightened time. You know better now and don’t do that anymore.
I also have a problem with digging up stuff from decades ago and then using it to try and extort an apology or damage someone’s career- I’m sure nobody in the public eye is so perfect as to not have something from some point in their career that could be dug up and used against them, even if it’s not relevant.
Here’s an article about Hart that mentions the comedy routine/jokes in question (it’s about 3/4 down the article). I found it interesting.
But folks are merely saying words about this: folks who take issue with the jokes aren’t smashing windows or throwing bombs; they’re saying words in response, and people who hear them are reacting with a quick ‘yeah, okay.’
No. Bigoted words have power whether they make you feel bad or not, because they promote bigotry. Their very nature is harmful to society, which requires disparate groups to function together.
Hart’s jokes only work if the audience accepts bigotry as true. So the only people who would find his jokes funny are bigots, and I don’t have any problem depriving them of joy. It is wrong to get joy out of harming others.
And, finally, I don’t want to live in the calloused world you describe, where people don’t care about the feelings of others, and everyone has to keep their guard up at all times. That would be emotionally draining, lack intimacy or caring, and just be horrible.
Though do you even really feel that way? Because I’m pretty sure that, if I started making jokes attacking white conservative men, you’d get upset. You wouldn’t say that I should be allowed to provide joy to everyone else.