Kevin Smith Movies

[Equipoise]

From Wikipedia:

Smith has repeatedly denied rumours that he re-shot scenes or cut Jennifer Lopez’s part into a cameo for fear of a public backlash due to the poor box office reception of Gigli.

Source: This is a link worth reading all the way through. In his own words he refutes a New York Times article with several inaccuracies. He takes on several different aspects but in particular regarding the “recut”:

New York Times: **Ms. Lopez’s part was trimmed after test audiences last spring panned the on-screen relationship between Ms. Lopez and Mr. Affleck. **

While not attributed to me directly, I didn’t say anything like this in my interview either. Just because someone fills out a comment card that says “I hate J.Ho in real life!” doesn’t mean I’m going to alter my movie to satisfy that mental giant. The cuts I make following test screenings are not based on comment cards or scores (and for the record, the movie is scoring extremely well). How I use the test screenings is I listen to the room as the movie’s playing, and if a scene is playing slowly, and I can feel it during the screening, I’ll re-examine it in the editing room. But if you’ve seen some of the comments cards I’ve read in my nearly ten years of test-screening experience, you’d learn pretty quickly to lend them little credence. Putting an unfinished movie up in front of an audience is beneficial; hearing their exact specifics on the movie in a scene-by-scene breakdown is not.

… [go read it, really]

I know it’s en vogue at the moment to place Jen Lopez in the cross-hairs for all hat wrong with the world, so of course the author of this piece is inclined to write that I whittled away Jen’s screen time. However, what she fails to mention is that I whittled away EVERYONE’S screen time. That’s how you cut a movie – you don’t whittle away one character who was barely in the movie to begin with; you get in there and shave EVERYBODY down.

The irritating thing is that what Laura’s expressed in that passage above isn’t wrong, per se’; it just fails to represent the entire story. It’s selective with the details. And I get why: because unless you’re purporting that Jen’s getting cut out of the movie, the author is left with a rather boring piece about how the movie’s been edited, period. Wow – stop the presses. A movie gets edited? What a scoop.

Source:

This is directly from Smith’s post on his message board in response to Beat Box running the story that Jersey Girl had been recut:

Yeah, use the Enquirer as a source. That’s always smart.

I know it’s only a gossip piece, but gossip or not, I thought I’d state for the record, that we have not re-shot, nor do we have plans to re-shoot, scenes for “Jersey Girl.” Ben and Jen’s chemistry in the flick is the exact opposite of zero. I’m not desperately (or even casually) rewriting dick. Both test audiences seemed to get why the two characters were together quite well. And there’s no $3 million being spent. There - you now have it from a credible source.

I’d heard they were playing that Enquirer game on Stern the other day and this “Jersey Girl” $3 million re-shoot crap came up as a true story. I assumed (wrongly, I guess) that anyone who really gave a shit knew that it was “Gigli” that had done re-shoots, not “Jersey Girl.”

Now I’m seeing this isn’t the case.

In her (or his) haste to attack and damn Ben and Jen’s relationship in any way possible (because it catches the interest of a news-reading public whose attention would be better spent on the war abroad), MSN’s unfortunately named BeatBox Betty has dragged our flick into a spot of mud, alleging problems where there are none. I know she (or he) is only a gossip hound, but I’d ask that, in the future, she (or he) at least try to contact someone involved with a production she (or he) plans to besmirch, rather than lazily take her cues from the likes of a tabloid.

While I’m at it, though, I’d also like to point out that all this “Gigli” stuff is crap too. I’ve seen the flick with a test screening audience, and I haven’t heard laughter like that in a movie theater since “American Pie” (or “Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back”). And, mind you, the laughter was WITH, not AT, the movie.

Much as I hate to disappoint BeatBox, both movies seem like they’re going to do just fine - quite like Ben and Jen’s relationship.

Regardless, next time you’re writing a story, even if it is for a gossip sheet, how about simply picking up a phone and doing a little research? Just because you’ve been reduced to the lowest rung on the ladder of journalism (manufacturing news where there really isn’t any), it doesn’t mean you have to conduct yourself like an asshole, know-nothing.

From Kevin Smith on ‘Jersey Girl,’ Bennifer - March 10, 2004

“I’ve had to make people understand it’s not a Bennifer flick, it’s not Gigli 2,” Smith said wearily. “They’ll see when the movie comes out that, yeah, the two of them are in it, but they’re actually good together - and then she’s gone real quick and it’s about him and the kid for the rest of the movie.”

The intensely personal comedy, Smith says, was inspired by the birth of his daughter Harley Quinn, who will be 5 in June - as well as the death last year of his father, a retired postal worker.

“There’s a lot of me in Ollie [Affleck’s character] and a lot of my dad in Bart [the character’s father], who has that moment where he tells Ollie he doesn’t want to die alone,” says Smith. “That’s a part of the movie that’s always played very poignant to me, but now I can’t watch it - and I have to leave at that point because of my dad.”

But despite all of the aggravation of the Affleck-J.Lo spotlight - “I felt like I was part of the relationship, but I didn’t get any nooky,” he jokes - Smith insists he has no regrets about casting what was Hollywood’s hottest couple in “Jersey Girl.”

“I feel Jen is in many ways the linchpin of this movie, because she got this performance out of Ben because they actually were in love - and you feel his sense of loss after she’s gone,” he says. “And if we hadn’t had Jen, we wouldn’t have cast Raquel, who looks like Jen and is one of our best casting decisions ever. Maybe in the immediate future, ‘Gigli’ or Bennifer will have an immediate effect on our box office,” he said. “But I hope it makes a lot of money, because it would be nice to flip the bird to everyone who predicted it was a bomb-in-waiting.”

From “A Chat With Kevin Smith” By: Will Harris (wharris@bullz-eye.com) Dated: 11/10/06

BE: Or at least proofreading it, anyway. So when are we going to see “Jersey Girl: The Extended Cut” on DVD? I know it’s been played at your annual Vulgarthon in New Jersey, so I figured we’d see it sooner than later.

KS: Yeah, I don’t know. Last year, we said to Buena Vista, “Can we put this out?” And they said, “Let’s wait a few years.” It would’ve been easier to do if Bob and Harvey were still at Miramax and that relationship still existed, but now, I really don’t have anyone over at Buena Vista that I’m tight with, so it’s much harder to make your case. Basically, they’re like, “’Jersey Girl’? Why would we bother?” So, sooner or later, we will. I mean, at the end of the day, it moves good units for them. But they seem to be the only act in town who aren’t, like, “Yeah, man, fuck, let’s go again!” Like, Columbia/Tri-Star was, “Let’s do a ‘Dogma’ extended edition!” And I’m, “Really? We’ve already done two ‘Dogma’ DVDs.” But these cats are kind of dragging their heels.

BE: Maybe they’re waiting for the 10-year anniversary.

KS: Yeahhhhhhh…that’d be a painful look back. Ten years later…I don’t know if time will be kind to that movie. I was always hoping it would be a “Mallrats” kind of thing, but I don’t know if we’ll get a second bite of that apple. Like, “Mallrats” came out and nobody seemed to like it, but then 10 years on, everybody seemed to love it, so much so that they wanted to do another DVD of it. So I was, like, “Wow, maybe it’ll be like that for ‘Jersey Girl’!” But I don’t think so. I think “Jersey Girl” was just one of those flicks that was the wrong time, the wrong guy, the wrong everything. But I still love it.

[Equipoise]

Oh, and about the original story…

*New York Times: Mr. Smith, who attained cult status with movies like “Chasing Amy” and “Dogma,” had always conceived of “Jersey Girl” as the story of Ollie Trinke (played by Mr. Affleck) raising his young daughter, Gertie. But when Ms. Lopez was cast as the girl’s mother, the production quickly turned into the “Ben and Jennifer show,” much to Mr. Smith’s chagrin. **

Kevin Smith: Let me clarify here. “Chagrin” is probably too harsh a term. The only aspect of the “Ben and Jennifer Show” I was ever uncomfortable with was in how Miramax might be tempted to sell “Jersey Girl” as a Ben and Jen flick, when Jen’s not in it very long.

Naturally, for the better part of a year, we tried to keep the fact that her character dies in the first half hour very quiet, as it would spoil the movie for folks and soften the emotional wallop it packs in the film. Early on (before the “Gigli” mess was even a twinkle in every gossip-hound’s eye), Miramax was inclined to promote the movie (upon release) as a Ben and Jen movie – which would’ve meant cutting trailers and tv spots solely from the first half hour of the movie – because everything else in the film after that refers back to Jen’s character’s death. And since I didn’t want to reveal to the world Jen’s character’s early exit from the film - thus spoiling the flick in advance for audiences who liked to be surprised by movies - there wasn’t much I could say or do to offer up alternative ways to market the flick. I just hoped that, by the time the good folks at Miramax got around to serious marketing decisions, they’d show a bit of restraint, and not whore out an actress who, while mega-famous and stellar in the picture, is barely in it.

Now, in the post-“Gigli” climate, marketing the flick as a Ben and Jen movie is the last thing Miramax wants to do – which is cool by me, as I always felt the movie should be sold as what it is: a father/daughter relationship film. That’s largely what the flick’s about, so why not sell it honestly?

It’s just a shame that that particular marketing decision was arrived at under the current circumstances. Because now, thanks to the voracious press machine, the news of Jen’s character’s death early in the film has become common knowledge (I went to the “Battle for Shaker Heights” premiere tonight, and every press person that grabbed me began with “Aren’t you happy that Jen’s character dies in your movie now?”). All through production, we went to great pains to keep it a secret, going so far as to shoot fake stills of Ben, Jen, and Raquel (the titular “Jersey Girl”) together. But when we started test screening, and the early internet reviews spoiled the death, the cat was out of the bag. At that point, I had little choice but to cop Jen’s early exit from the flick – which is why in the April 27th Sunday NY
Times piece, I talked about her character dying.

So if there was any “chagrin”, it was over the fact that the movie might have been sold in a bait-and-switch manner. That’s now no longer a threat.

[msmith537]

Jersey Girl was clown shoes. Fuck it up its stupid ass.

Go ahead and watch Chasing Amy and Mall Rats simply for completeness sake. I’ve only seen them a few times but CA is a bit heavier.

They are also have a very strong Gen-X slacker vibe if that’s your thing.

[Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup]

People actually LIKE this guy’s stuff?

[Justin_Bailey]

@Happy Scrappy Hero Pup

People actually LIKE this guy’s stuff?

Hasn’t it become abundantly clear during the tenure of your posting career that you don’t know shit?

[Equipoise]

@Happy Scrappy Hero Pup

People actually LIKE this guy’s stuff?

No, all the people in this thread who have said they like this or that or all of his movies are just pulling your leg. We got together and decided.

Btw, I’m still waiting for Cisco to come back and admit he was wrong.

[Student_Driver]

@Equipoise

No, all the people in this thread who have said they like this or that or all of his movies are just pulling your leg. We got together and decided.

Considering Happy Scrappy Hero Pup’s username… I think you got whooshed. (Quick reference: check out Clerks, the scene where the mother asks Randall about ordering a kiddie video.)

[Windwalker]

Clerks was awesome, and Chasing Amy actually explored mature themes in a somewhat interesting way. Dogma was pretty good as well, but by this point, the Askewniverse movies were starting to get tired in that most of them have a very similar and not very sophisticated sensibility. Mallrats and Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back were awful, awful movies.

I really hope Kevin Smith doesn’t keep retreading that same old schtick, for I think he does have talent.

[Cisco]

@Equipoise

Btw, I’m still waiting for Cisco to come back and admit he was wrong.

@Kevin Smith in Jan

“Jersey Girl,” . . . Smith says, “stopped being ‘a Kevin Smith movie’ and became a ‘Jen and Ben movie,’ or a ‘Bennifer movie,’ as we call it now.”

@Kevin Smith in Mar

I’ve had to make people understand it’s not a Bennifer flick

You can believe the retcon and I’ll believe what I was following at the time, and what the blogs and articles from before the Bennifer backlash still show. Again, Jersey Girl was largely autobiographical and Smith’s wife isn’t dead.

[Siam_Sam]

@Cisco

… and Smith’s wife isn’t dead.

Yet.

[Sage_Rat]

@Cisco

You can believe the retcon and I’ll believe what I was following at the time, and what the blogs and articles from before the Bennifer backlash still show. Again, Jersey Girl was largely autobiographical and Smith’s wife isn’t dead.

Cisco, you’re arguing that a) He made it into a Bennifer movie instead of a Kevin Smith movie, and b) He editted out Bennifer material so it wouldn’t be a Bennifer movie. Obviously, it makes no sense to argue for both of those at the same time.

Your quote in post #39 supports option b, though it doesn’t say where it got this information. Option a (post #28) reads to me like you’re misreading it. He’s saying that the rest of the world viewed it as a Bennifer movie before it was released. It doesn’t say a thing about his directing or editing choices.

[SmackFu]

It’s interesting to see the Mallrats alternate intro, which is on the DVD I believe. It’s bizarre.

[What_Exit]

@Sage Rat

Cisco, you’re arguing that a) He made it into a Bennifer movie instead of a Kevin Smith movie, and b) He editted out Bennifer material so it wouldn’t be a Bennifer movie. Obviously, it makes no sense to argue for both of those at the same time.

Your quote in post #39 supports option b, though it doesn’t say where it got this information. Option a (post #28) reads to me like you’re misreading it. He’s saying that the rest of the world viewed it as a Bennifer movie before it was released. It doesn’t say a thing about his directing or editing choices.

I find this argument interesting. I suggest one of you take the next step. Go over to viewaskew.com and log on to the The View Askew WWWBoard - Welcome message board and actually ask him. He is a bit of an internet geek (like us) and might answer the question. You can even mention it came up on this board. If he doesn’t answer it, some more devoted fanboy or fangirl probably can answer it reasonably well.

I’ve been to several Q&As and I have watched both “Evenings with”, I don’t recall this particular question coming up, though he did discuss Jennifer coming to his house very upset trying to find out if he knew why things weren’t working out between her and Ben.

The Fanboys/girls on that message board are way more fanatical about his movies than anyone here. They probably already know the details and can cite it.

Jim

[Rachael_Rage]

@Cisco

I don’t know what his idle fantasy was but it’s safe to assume it wasn’t the death of his freaking wife.

That’s exactly what it was. He was married to and madly in love with his wife, with a new baby. It is perfectly reasonable for a new dad to “idly fantasize” what it would be like if the love of his life disappeared and left him with the kid. Not that he wanted this to happen, quite the opposite. It must be a terrifying thought. How would he grieve? What kind of father would he be? How would it affect his career? Would he ever love again? That’s exactly what the film is about. The fact that he didn’t mention in 2002 that the wife dies early in the film is explained by the ample quotes provided - he didn’t want to give away the “twist.”

Apparently you think that Kevin Smith is retconning himself, as if he’s the bitch of phantom major studio heads who can dictate what his scripts are about. Kevin Smith is not some rookie director desperate for a job. If the studio didn’t want him to make the movie he wanted to make, he’d go to a different studio (as he did with Dogma) or finance the fuckin’ thing himself. No way in hell could a script be written, greenlit and in production and then have the plot completely changed in the shooting/editing process. Sorry, the wife was dead from day one and nothing you have typed up to now has countered that.

…and I’m all for What Exit?'s suggestion. Although I do think the previous quotes from him explain it well enough.

[Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup]

@Justin Bailey

Hasn’t it become abundantly clear during the tenure of your posting here that you don’t know shit?

I am… confused.

One, as to exactly who you are, two, as to how you’re so familiar with my sporadic posting history as to make such a sweeping statement as that.

ESPECIALLY when, considering the distinct possibility that, if you thought I was threadshitting, then you’re not familiar with my posting history at ALL, considering that I make the exact same joke in pretty much every Kevin Smith thread as my way of subscribing to them.

To sum up:

Who, exactly, are you?

Did you not get the joke?

Are you really stalking me or were you just trying to find strong words to combat perceived threadshitting?

If that’s the case, you realize how silly that missing perhaps my ONLY trick makes you look when you’re trying to make a statement about my posting history, yes?

[Justin_Bailey]

@Happy Scrappy Hero Pup

I am… confused.

Are you serious? It’s a paraphrase of a line Brodie told to T.S. in Mallrats after he screwed up trying to get Claire Forlani back after following Brodie’s advice.

No ill intent intended, I was just playing along and would have thought you’d get it.

[Happy_Scrappy_Hero_Pup]

Nope. Went clean over my head.

No hard feelings and I will take my whooshing and go home.

[Happy_Lendervedder]

@What Exit?

I also strongly recommend renting An Evening with Kevin Smith (2002) & An Evening with Kevin Smith 2: Evening Harder (2006). These are two long comedic sessions filmed as Kevin Smith interacts in Q&A sessions throughout various college stops in the USA. I have seen Kevin live in Red Bank a few time, he is an incredibly funny (& filthy) raconteur.

Jim (An unrepentant Kevin Smith ‘Diehard’ fanboy)

I just want to make sure everyone sees this. I haven’t seen the sequel, but An Evening With Kevin Smith is quite possibly the funniest thing I’ve ever seen. I’ve watched it three times and laugh harder each time I see it. If you haven’t seen it, rent it ASAP!

I’ll have to go pick up Part 2.

[What_Exit]

@Happy Scrappy Hero Pup

Nope. Went clean over my head.

No hard feelings and I will take my whooshing and go home.

Damn, Scrappy, your name and joke went over my head sometime last year, I am shocked you missed the Brodie joke.

I guess, I have watched Mallrats too many times not to get it. I have only watched Clerks 3 times and once with commentary.

Happy Lendervedder, there is a third one in the works that will be in HD and includes his Birthday Q&A from Red Bank, NJ last year. My wife and I were there and really enjoyed the hell out of it.

Jim

[Bryan_Ekers]

Of course, regardless of what Smith wrote during the production of Jersey Girl, the picture is muddled considerably in light of recent interviews in which he implies the Girl is a replicant.