See TonyF 's earlier post.
I’ve lived with terrible roommates before and I wish to simply reiterate my earlier advice, see an attorney as soon as possible and be prepared to press for eviction proceedings as soon as possible a.k.a. kick her ass to the curb.
Also please keep us informed, this serves as a wonderful reminder as to why I shouldn’t move out of my current apartment…
Okay then, let me share the benefits of experience with similar situations. During my years as a University student, then afterwards on fairly low paid jobs, I spent several years sharing accomodation with others. I stayed in several different houses, with different bunches of people. A few brief comments about my experiences.
The first place I stayed in had four rooms of varying desirability. Firstly, there was the master bedroom, which had fitted wardrobes, and its own mini office with fitted desk, bookshelves and so on. Secondly there was a double bedroom with free standing wardrobes. Third, there was a small single bedroom. Fourth, there was my room. I suppose the architect had seen it as a dining room. People walked through my room to get to the kitchen. I had a curtain around my bed to give me some privacy.
Me and my housemates divided the rent as follows: we all paid the same. Me in my walkthrough dining room, and the guy with the fitted desk paid the same amount. His room was much better than mine, but I never even considered demanding that he pay extra. The thought just simply did not occur to me. Pretty much everyone I knew had the same arrangement with their housemates. That is just simply the way things are. Sometimes you get the room with the fitted desk, sometimes you get the walk through dining room.
Many of my housemates were great people, a few were absolute bastards. Sometimes, you get people who move in, and start changing everything to suit themselves. One guy I shared with moved his girlfriend into his room. First, she objected to paying a share of the bills. According to her, she was covered by her boyfriend’s share, even though they often cooked seperate meals, took seperate baths, used more gas and electricity than the rest of us. Then they decided that their room was too small, so they needed to take over the living room too. My objections were met with threats of violence.
I’ve also had a lot of experience with rotton landlords. I have first hand experience of a landlord suddenly announcing a large rent increase. When you are living on a low income, watching every single penny, then suddenly you are faced with extra expense, it can be extremely distressing. It is an awful experience, I’ve been through it.
I can also state from experience that being evicted is worse. I had a pretty nasty time with one landlord who just turned up one day and announced that he had decided to sell the house, and he wanted me out at the end of the week. British law requires a 2 month notice period before eviction, but he didn’t care. He tried every nasty trick to force me out earlier. It is hard to find a new place, especially on a low income, trying to get together ewnough money for deposit and advance rent, trying to find somewhere suitable at an affordable price. Being chucked out is hell.
The situation described in this thread is all of my worst experiences with flatmates and landlords rolled into one. We have a guy and his girlfriend moving into a new place, changing the arrangements to suit himself, issuing threats to get his way, forcing a rent raise on someone else, and trying to chuck her out when she doesn’t agree to it. I have been on the receiving end of all of this, and my sympathy is with the girl. What you are trying to do is appalling. And in your justification, you say that she hogs the internet, and is territorial with the fridge. That is not remotely a chucking out offense.
I offer my advice on how to deal with the situation.
The first problem is that she has a much better room than you do, and you don’t think it’s fair. Well, welcome to the grown up world. Nobody ever promised that life would be fair. At your age, you ought to be beyond crying “she’s got more suite than me.”
My advice to you is that learn to live with it. Sometimes you get the good room, sometimes you get the bad room. Give her your congratulations on her good fortune. Maybe next year It’ll be your turn. Just be grateful that you don’t live in a walk through dining room.
Second problem is the division of rent. If I’ve understood the situation, it’s roughly like this. Currently, each room is charged at $130. The girl is paying $130 for her room, W is paying $130 for her room, and the people who are leaving are paying $260 for the two small rooms. You want to take over those two small rooms, but you don’t want to pay $260 for them. You think it would be more fair if you paid $240, and charged the extra $20 to the girl in the big room. (the actual figures may be wrong, but this seems to be the situation)
My advice to you is that you learn that the world does not revolve around you. You demand that she pays a chunk of your rent, she refuses. You have no complaint. People may refuse to give you money when you need it, or they may fail to arrange their lives around your wishes, that does not make them selfish.
What you should ask yourself is: are you willing to pay $260 for these two rooms? Would they be worth that price? Suppose the big room didn’t exist at all, and you were offered these rooms at $260, would you take them?
If they are worth $260, then pay $260 and don’t ask anyone else to contribute. If they are not worth $260, then go and live somewhere else.
The poor girl may be on dodgy legal ground, she might not be able to protect herself from you, but what you are doing is just plain wrong. Please think about what you’re doing, and don’t put her through this.
Having read through two pages of this saga, and being firmly on TonyF’s side up to this point, I was swayed by Peter Morris’ last comment:
I agree. If it’s not worth the extra money you would be paying by keeping the Girl at her current rent, leave. But if you recognize that you are indeed getting a good deal even at the higher rate, swallow your reservations.
That said, if you still want to play hardball, propose that the new lease be cancelled and all other parties leave if the Girl does not agree to your terms. You will all have to find new housing, but it’s better than living with a psychochick.
In response to Peter Morris (aha I remembered to check and log TonyF off first!):
We are not imposing needless extra rent charges on the new girl. We are redistributing the rent according to room area so that people get what they pay for. The majority of the housemates - 4 of the 5 people who wish to live in the apartment, regardless of who’s on the lease - agree that by having a bigger room, you should pay more.
I understand that the world “does not revolve around us”, but we have signed the lease and so should have fair say in how the rent will be decided. Why would anyone want to lie down and let someone who isn’t on the lease come in and dictate how they and others in the apartment will live? Why should an adult allow others to determine how things will run when living in a shared space should mean that a person has equal say in important matters?
We are taking charge of our living situation because we feel that what we have a fair and objective method of determining rent for everyone. We will not play victim to someone and take the “well fate has determined that my life will suck” road. We will try to compromise with her, but if she will not work with us, nor enlighten us to her reasoning past “my cousin promised me”, then we will take matters into our own hands.
I’m sorry that you had to endure such horrible people and landlords, but it does not mean that we will also sit back and allow others to make our lives worse.
Peter, let me try to explain. I can sympathize greatly with your situation and I would not want to go through it myself or put her through it either.
Do you see it? You’re fine with the first situation, but there’s a sense of injustice in the second - especially in how you frame it as being a difficult time in your life.
But they’re both the same situation: you’re paying the same as others, but others are getting more in return. Why shouldn’t I feel the same about my situation?
How about this:
According to her, she was covered by her current rent, even though she has more room, has her own bath, and has a walk-in closet.
or:
She decided the other rooms didn’t fit her her taste, so she needed to take over the master bedroom. My objections were met with “I have made my decision and I will not be moving to a smaller room.”
Indeed. But in case you missed it earlier:
Perhaps I should add that, if the other roomates agree, she can keep the current rate as well.
I have not issued any threats to her whatsoever, nor am I forcing her rent to go up.
No - my justification is that she hasn’t participated in the discussion in a meaningful way. Note that she didn’t simply hog the internet; she disconnected others from the router for her own benefit. Now she’s dictating her room and her rent without consulting us at all. It’s not a stretch to imagine that she’ll be wanting to dictate other things that affect us without consulting us at all. So tell me, why shouldn’t we be positioning ourselves this way? Try not to use the ideas of sympathy or understanding, as it is clear that she has little of that for us.
So, take it or leave it? Well I would leave it, except that:
(“Get a student loan so you can afford it!” you say? Well, why should either of us go into debt while paying more for less?)
I would take it, except that if the girl carries on like this it will be a miserable arrangement… and to be a complete asshole, well, I may not have to put up with it.
But… that’s not really hardball, then! 
She refuses to move from her room, let alone the apartment. Besides, if we were to get out of the lease, that would leave her with three weeks to find three roommates to cover the $800+ difference or face eviction on the 31st. I wouldn’t want to do that to her - that’s worse for her than what we may end up doing.
I think that you are the one making her life worse. When you talk about “taking things into your own hands” you demonstrate that you are willing to use force to get your own way.
What compromise are you willing to offer, exactly?
That was your arrangement. That’s a decision you and your roommates all came to. Clearly, the arrangement in the OP’s flat is different.
For what it’s worth, in every single roommate living situation I’ve been in, we’ve divided up the rent according to room size, unless all the rooms were approximately equal. I fail to see how it’s equitable that somebody with a room twice the size of yours pays the same rent as you. If you were fine with the situation, well, that’s you. I reckon that many people would not be fine with that sort of distribution of costs.
I guess I’m confused.
You and your friends are moving into and signing a lease on an apartment. Someone else used to live in the apartment. Someone else’s friend wants to continue living in the apartment even after you move in.
Um, when I sign a lease on an apartment, I expect the previous occupant, all their belongings, and all their friends to be gone. It’s my apartment now.
I don’t see how this girl continues to live there unless you’ve invited her to.
Can’t you just point out to the landlord that you have a squatter who didn’t move out when her friend did?
So you signed a lease without knowing the exact numbers for the rent. How did you determine that “It was a pretty good deal”? Are the exact numbers close to the rough estimate?
That’s just that, your idea. You may think it’s fair, but I don’t see how the girl is in any way obligated to agree with it.
If the exact numbers are close to the rough estimate, then you still have a ‘good deal’. If the girl has a ‘better deal’, so what?
The correct answer to “My cousin promised me” is “He doesn’t live here anymore.”
What a debacle. Best of luck to you.
When I had roommates, I got my own room (they shared, and theirs was slightly bigger, IIRC) but I paid more rent (because I didn’t have to share, you see). And I was fine with that, because it was what we’d agreed upon.
If you can get this girl out, you should. She’ll be difficult to live with. And this coming from someone who can appreciate the girl’s side.
I’ll say this, however: it seems like W needs to grow a pair. If she’s got a good relationship with cousin, she should be able to explain what went wrong. She’s willing to sacrifice peace at home, where she lives, everyday, day in and day out, for a friendship with someone she’ll now see less often. If cuz is a real friend, he’ll understand. Living with this girl cannot be worth this.
Correct… also, living with friendly, approachable people (W and her boyfriend) played a heavy role in our decision. We’ve had enough bad roomates…
She isn’t, in the sense that we’re quite willing to negotiate down - maybe even if we end up right where we started.
Well, no deal has been settled on; that’s why the process started in the first place. And it’s not that she simply wound up with a better deal - it’s that her approach was “this is the deal, take it or leave it” (while ours, in contrast, is “this is our deal, it’s negotiable, and we’ll even meet on your schedule to discuss it”).
If we negotiate and she ends up with a better deal, then “so what.” 
Not quite… in this case, I’m willing to use force to reach a consensus, whatever that may be.
I’m willing to go down to what she’s paying now: $360. I know this makes me sound like a jerk, but all she has to do is convince me that $360 is a fair rate - for her, or in general.
I’m one hell of a pushover, so it wouldn’t be hard.
Now with most of the insults removed!
Here is my solution: When she and W are not at home quickly move all her things to the curb. If she complains call the cops and tell them she’s trespassing–show your lease as proof, regardless of what Random says; cops aren’t going to go into the legal intricacies. If she still complains tell her to take it to People’s Court. I’d love to see Judge Milian slap her around.
Well you do if you sign the lease.
See here’s the deal. The reason we have leases (and other contracts) is so the rules of the arrangement are specifically spelled out. As it is, you have people who have no business doing so making promises they have no right to make. You have this girl who thinks her great deal with her cousin should last in perpetuity. People are making gentlemen’s deals with cousins and friends of friends. Finally, you have TonyF and Penchan moving in and I can’t decide if the have a legitimate beef or if they are like this selfish fuckheaded couple (actually it was just the guy and his squatter GF) that I lived with when I was 24 who thought that the entire house belonged to them and their stupid love. That in and of itself is a huge problem whenever you have a couple in the mix. It immediately creates a dynamic of the two always being a packaged deal.
Here’s the situation:
W and Girl are living in the appartment and the lease is ending. They have a living arrangement
TonyF and Penchan (and Friend) are looking to move in.
W and Girl need to make a decision:
a) Re-sign the lease and attempt to fill the vacancies (with you guys or someone else) to cover the additional cost. The benefit is that they can predetermine their share of the rent and living areas. The risk is that they won’t find someone and will be on the hook for the entire place
OR
b) Sit down with all of you and figure out among yourselves how to split the rent and rooms. Then all of you go and sign the new lease.
TonyF and Penchan (and Friend) also need to decide some things:
Or I could just cut it in half and give one half to each of you.
Or, slightly less draconian: when you’re sure she will be out for a couple hours, move all her belongings (carefully, don’t destroy anything) from the big bedroom to the second largest, and then move whoever’s stuff into the large room. When she complains, point out that Whoever has agreed to pay $XXX more than the rest of you and thus Whoever gets the biggest room AND the private bath. (Personally, I’d say the benefit of having your bathroom vs. sharing with four people is all by itself worth an extra $50/mo at least. But then I live looooong baths.)
Anyway, if she doesn’t agree this is fair, then let her appeal to the landlord who will have no interest in the matter. Heck, let her call the cops. Are they going to be interested in which roommate gets which room? Hah.
But I stress: be very very careful not to damage or lose any of her stuff.
Just be really, really sure not to damage
This advice is idiotic for several reasons.
If you “move all her things to the curb”, I wouldn’t count on the cops taking the side of someone who follows your “advice” (hereinafter, “you”) over that of a sobbing young woman surrounded by all of her household property, who claims to be a valid occupant. Telling the cops that she was trespassing isn’t some cure-all defense when it’ll be obvious that she lived there, has a key, etc. I agree that a cop may not be capable of “going into the legal intricacies”. If that’s the case, though, why are you so sure that the cop would take your side of things? You could end up being arrested for taking her property, especially if she claims that items are missing. Maybe you’d be lucky, though. A cop might walk away from the situation. Even if he does, you still have to deal with the fact that…
Forcible detainer is prohibited in California. It’s against the law. If her property gets stolen or damaged, you’d be potentially liable for damages. See California Code of Civil Procedure Sec. 1159(2).
No one is required to go to TV-show court. She could sue you in the regular civil courts.
Do you plan on changing the locks? Although I doubt your planning has been deep enough to even consider the issue, let’s give you the benefit of the doubt and say you have. Tell me, do you change the locks? If so, the landlord isn’t going to be real happy with you. If not, it appears that both the (now thoroughly pissed off) Girl and her cousin have keys to your apartment. Let’s see - what might they do?
(and that’s the whole point of forcible detainer law - people physically evicting one another leads to fights, property damage and general chaos.)
Same disclaimers from prior response apply. The OP should do what he’s already said he plans to do - see a California attorney. (and not listen to what anyone says on a messageboard. Not even me, and certainly not dropzone.)
What this mainly makes me very glad of is that I’ve long since passed out of the stage of having roommates. But certainly, the best advice is to consult a local attorney and try to sort this nonsense out. Given that it’s California we’re dealing with, and specifically a college town, I’d be extremely careful about doing anything with her possessions - who knows what sort of cause of action you might end up creating if you even move them into another room. And, more practically, until she’s out of the house she’s going to be pretty un-live-with-able, so you might as well not make it worse.
And, Peter Morris, it’s generally good advice to check your mental baggage at the door. Yes, it sounds like what happened to you sucked. A lot. But you’re overempathizing here. Anyone who enters into roommate situations without having some sort of written agreement deserves a few hard lessons, especially if they’re claiming that they’re entitled to keep a disproportionately low rent…after the lease has terminated. (I still cannot believe that this…person…thinks she gets to keep her rent at the same level on a non-existant lease.) “But-but-but-but…” I hear you say, “I think that you are the one making her life worse.” No, she herself is the only one responsible for making her life worse, and no one else. It’s up to her to ingratiate herself to the people who, y’know, are actually on the lease - a duty at which it’s pretty evident she failed.
Yeah let me echo Random’s advice that this is utterly moronic. You are correct that the cops aren’t going to go into the legal intricacies. They may simply lock you up overnight as some kind of domestic disturbance. The fact that you think that this will go to TV court is also indicative of how much fantasy your idea is. What makes you think the judge would “slap her around”?
Forget the lawyers. It will just cost you money and a lawyer is not a substitute for common sense and . You need to sit down like GROWN UP PEOPLE and work out with your roomates an arrangement that all of you can live with. Then have the landlord reissue the lease. If you can’t do that simple task then you should live somewhere else.