You know, I was assaulted in broad daylight walking home from school once, through a residential neighborhood. It doesn’t take much time for something to happen–in my case, I was 6 or 7 years old walking home from elementary school.
I’m also remembering one night, again walking in a neighborhood, when a car with some young men drove up. They were laughing and raucous, and opened the door and one headed towards me. I was terrified that he was going to harm me, but my dog (who wasn’t on a leash) came up and scared the crap out of the guy, who got back in the car and took off.
IMHO, it’s not a good idea to expect your daughter to be walking alone in the dark. When I’m at school and have night classes, I won’t walk back to my car in the dark by myself. It’s a sad commentary on the times we live in, but it’s reality.
Just out of curiousity, Dinsdale, what’s your wife’s take on the issue?
Your daughter is at a really vulnerable age, and she no doubt feels vulnerable. Her fears might not be realistic to you, but I’m sure they’re very realistic to her. And she probably has a really good point. A girl walking home with friends after dark is a lot safer than a girl walking by herself after dark. As a 24 year old woman, I feel uncomfortable walking alone at night, and as a 14 year old, I would have been even more nervous.
What if, just for a few times, you met her at school after band practice and walked home with her? It might make her feel less vulnerable and it would show her that she is loved and cared for–something that I really, really needed to know as a 14 year-old-girl. It would also give the two of you a good chance for some Dad/daughter time. You wouldn’t have to do it all the time, maybe just for a week or so or when she couldn’t walk with friends.
Don’t make her walk alone.
Give her a cell phone.
Go out yourself to meet her.
Give her some options.
You have no idea what it’s like to be a girl alone with guys hollering at you. They don’t have to do a single thing, just be there. At 14 you have just found out what rape is and it’s the most terrifying thing in the world. I lived on a farm and remember being scared to walk to the barn. Rational, no. Something to be forced to overcome? NO. Give her support but let her be scared sometimes too and for no reason too, because real life is sometimes scary for no reason and rationality is not always the answer.
Don’t make her walk alone!
If you do, and something happens to her, how will you live with yourself???
Lemme get this straight, you were walking this area with your children and found a CORPSE and you wonder why your daughter is afraid?
I’m with those who say don’t force it. I’m reminded of the carseat thread in the Pit where people were going on and on and on about the possible risks and why you’d flirt with danger and how badly you’d feel if something went wrong… Bad things happen, even in suburbia, and your daughter knows that and feels threatened. Have you noticed the spate of girl-nappings flooding the news lately? I know I have and I’m sure she has too. Although you feel the risk is negligible, it sounds as if she doesn’t. Seeing as how it’s her hide at risk, I think you should respect her feelings.
The route to school is approx 1/2 - 3/4 miles along well lit, relatively heavily travelled main roads, very close to the middle business district of our town (such as it is) with full sidewalks and traffic control signage along the entire route. I walk approx 2/3 of the same route to get to my train every day - takes maybe 8 minutes if I’m not in a hurry. The bike path is immediately south of the commuter parking lots.
To get to where we found the body, you would have to take the bike path approximately 3 miles the east - away from the center of town. As you approach the river, there will be a golf course on one side, and vacant wooded land near the other. Stop before crossing the river, get off the bike path, and walk through nearly impenetrable woods between the golf course fence and the river for approximately 1 mile. This edge of the golf course is the furthest possible point of the course from the clubhouse and the street it is on. On the other side of the river, is an approx 1/4 mile wide utility easement, before a 6 lane divided highway.
No, I don’t think the settings are quite identical.
I see–when you said you were walking that trail I assumed you meant right around the area in question. Sorry 'bout that.
Regardless, I stand by my opinion. If she’s willing to walk any other time, it’s obviously not laziness or petulance that’s causing her to balk at nightwalking. I know you’re wanting to instill independence, eliminate unnecessary fears, etc.—but it sounds like she’s scared and I think you should let her be. She’s still rather young, and developing an acute awareness of your surroundings and a healthy fear for what those surroundings may hold is a pretty big step for young girls. Do you have any reason to believe she is being disingenuous about her reasons for not wanting to walk?
Also–what time’s sunset in your neck of the woods these days? Any hope she might be able to make it home before dark?
I don’t mean to be morbid but take a look at the milk cartons and the walls at Wal-Mart. There are a lot of preteen and teen girls on those lists.
I don’t think this is an issue or a time to try to make her face her fears. Society provides clear thinking females enough evidence to be reasonably fearful. Sounds to me like your girl has a lot of common sense. And we females do have special radar for these things, if we’re willing to pay attention.
Have you talked to her band director/instructor. Try addressing it in terms of your concern rather than hers, to avoid embarrassment. Does she have close friends she can group with. Maybe you need to give in and realize that working with other parents is the safest way to go to avoid regrets later. Do you know any of the neighbors she can rely on to be home and available if she needs help. If all else fails, how about you walking her home?
I grew up in the suburbs of Chicago. Many of my close friends still live there, and as grown women would not walk the streets at night alone. Trust me! A teenage girl has no business out walking the streets at night alone. That’s asking for trouble! Your daughter’s instincts are right on!:eek:
I went to school in a nice area. I walked home from the computer labs late at night, by myself, on a well-lit path. There were often people hanging out in nearby parking lots (this was a college) talking and fooling around. I had convinced myself that I didn’t need to ask campus security to walk me home every night, only on nights when I felt skittish.
Then, towards the end of the first semester, a girl walking down the exact same path at 10 in the evening was attacked and molested by knife-point. At least three people walked by while she was being molested and did not see her. The attacker threatened to cut her throat if she made any noise.
Let me reiterate: This was in a nice area, on a well-lit and well-traveled path with people nearby at only 10 pm. The girl who was attacked was college-aged, and presumably better able to avoid bad situations and defend herself than a 14 year old girl.
Do you read the papers? Do you know how many girls and women are attacked in “nice areas”? Or in broad daylight? Or with other people around? Or all three? Not only are you potentially putting your daughter in danger, you are crushing the sense of safety that would keep her out of danger in the future.
Come to think of it, re-reading your post. You don’t seem to place much importance on “[s]ome jerks… holler[ing] at her. Or some creep… follow[ing] her.”
I was walking from my job as a church secretary to a Wendy’s for lunch (middle of the day) on a very busy street. Tons of traffic, both pedestrian and non. I tripped in the street in front of a stopped car. The man in the car got out to ask if I was ok. I thought that was very sweet until he proceeded to follow me and beg for my phone number for three blocks. That kind of thing is terrifying for a woman, and would be worse for a young girl.
I had a guy approach me in my high school parking lot and ask for my number. It was dark, and I didn’t know him, so I was nervous. I told him no. He then proceeded to rail on me for being a racist (he was black and I am white). He was bigger than me, and, yes, I was scared.
Another time I was waiting at a bus-stop on another busy street. Mid-morning. The same man drove past me four times, staring intently at me until I flagged down a cop who drove me home to my husband. The cop, my husband, and my boss (who came to pick me up and brought me to work) all agreed that I had good reason to be scared.
No, I wasn’t hurt by any of these events. But you don’t know what would have happened if I hadn’t gotten to Wendy’s or my mom hadn’t come to get me from school, or I hadn’t flagged down that cop. Maybe nothing. But maybe I wouldn’t be here right now telling you not to be stupid and force a scared 14 year old girl to walk alone at night no matter how “safe” you think it is.
What the hell? She’s scared, and I don’t blame her. Hell, I don’t even like taking the bus home later than five pm-since there was a serial rapist who caught several women on my bus route-all after 9 pm, but still. It was in a residential area.
Good lord, my parents wouldn’t even let me walk home from a friend’s house up the street after 9 pm when I was 14!
And if guys are bugging her, I don’t think that’s a wimp factor.
Look, the world’s a scary place, and it’s great to foster independence. But there’s a difference between being brave and being reckless, and this would fall under the latter, IMNSHO.
As far as “some jerk hollers at her”, you’ve obviously can’t fathom what it is like being a fourteen year old girl and having to endure sexual taunts from creepy assholes.
Walking around at night in quiet suburbs is an often safe act, but there are exceptions. For insance, one quiet night when I was about ten, circa '95 or '96, a female jogger was raped and strangled to death with a shoelace near a bayou two streets over from my best friend’s house.
So, yeah, let her find an alternate route. Or perhaps purchase her pepper spray, if she’s that afraid?
It certainly is different for boys. I started walking, by myself, to the public library - sixteen blocks! - when I was nine. As far as I can remember, nobody with evil intentions even noticed me. This was in 1977, not that long ago.
That same summer vacation, I was allowed to stay home alone all day every day! I’m pretty sure parents who allowed a nine-year-old so much freedom nowadays would risk jail.
I don’t think a 14 year old should be expected to walk at night, in a “safe” neighborhood, for a mile. Do you know how many rapes and assaults there are in your area? A call to the police department for the stats might surprise you. Any sex offenders living in the neighborhood? Look here: http://www.state.il.us/isp and see if there are.
Fear is a logical response. Being fearless can get you into some nasty situations. Listen to your daughter, and show her that you love her and care for her, and keep her safe.
Those hoodlums might yell at her – or, if they notice she’s alone, it might be a hell of a lot worse. It happens, even in the nice, safe areas.
Thanks for all the input. Can’t say you have convinced me, tho.
Several folk mention the bad things that can happen in broad daylight.
Does that mean I should not allow my children to walk places during the day?
Does the fact that some children experienced unpleasant things while walking home from grade school mean no child should walk home from grade school?
People get assaulted and murdered in their own homes …
And there will always assholes out there who will treat women disrespectfully, hooting and hollering, or pestering them on the street.
I personally suspect this is a situation where the perception of risk is magnified by the unpleasantness of the actual occurrances. I am not sure it is a healthy and desirable trait for my kids to be held hostage to a magnified fear based upon unlikely worst case scenarios. Moreover, I do not want my kids to develop an unwarranted fear that keeps them from experiencing the wonder and magic of the nighttime world.
Having said all that, I’ll probably walk the dog up to meet her tomorrow night, and on the way home we’ll discuss things.
I hope discussing things doesn’t mean telling her she has no right to be afraid. I agree that we should not be held captive to our fears, but this is a position that we have to come to on our own, not through being told by someone else. She will be less afraid if someone takes her seriously and helps her feel less afraid through feeling more confident of her ability to cope, not if someone tells her not to be afraid.
The cell phone is a great idea and so is a big whistle or siren or anything that will make a racket and attract attention, if she’s not too shy to use it. So is pepper spray.
And just a thought – perhaps her mother should be the one having these talks with her and not her father; when I was 14 there were a whole slew of things I would tell my mom & not my pop. Especially if he had already taken a position that my fears were “sillly” or “unwarranted”. Having once been raped in my own home, I don’t find most fears “unwarranted”.
As a women I know how to deal with the assholes. As a young girl I did not. Learning to deal with the assholes only came from self confidence. There isn’t a 14 year old girl alive who has much self confidence when it somes to sexual harrassment.
IMO - some fear is a good thing. It shows an awareness of one’s situation, and an appreciation of potential implications. But I do not believe one need be held hostage to one’s fears. One can assess the foreseeable dangers, and take reasonable precautions.
As far as Mrs D being the one to have this talk, while I am certain there are some things each of my kids prefer to talk to my wife about, similarly, there are some that they prefer to discuss with me. Eldest daughter talks w/ mom more about - um - feminine hygiene, that-time-of-month-type issues. But she talks with me A LOT about friends, dating, school, social situations, etc. For example, yesterday afternoon, she and I were the only ones home. I was just reading in the living room, and she came into the room, plopped into a chair, and chatted for about an hour about all manner of things. I was really pleased. And that type of thing is not an isolated event around casa Dinsdale. We don’t have a whole bunch of separate gender areas of “guy talk” as opposed to “girl talk.”
The kids are pretty open across the spectrum with both of us. And we try to return the favor. If our kids want to talk, whenever possible we give such discussions priority. At the risk of inaccurately attributing thoughts to her, I suspect Mrs D might well be less sympathetic to eldest daughter’s concerns on this issue than I am.