So has the Kirk versus Picard debate been done? Is this, in fact, a question that gets asked periodically by some daft newbie?
And what about Sisko and Janeway? Do they get a mention?
(yes, I watch unhealthy amounts of Star Trek)
BJ
Who cares? Let’s do it anyway!
He is the contest I propose.
The first captain to finish all four (4) tasks is the winner. Neither has access to their starships or crews. This is one on one!
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Discover a previously unknown life form, and successfully communicate negociate a peaceful solution with he/she/it.
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Seduce a scantily clad green woman.
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Write a 30 page essay on “Why it is important to FOLLOW the Prime Directive?”
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Beat the crap out of three (3) heavily muscled aliens.
My money is on Kirk. He has the edge in #2 and #4. He can manage good enough with #1. Sure he’ll flounder on #3 and it’ll take him days, but let’s look at Picard.
Picard will succeed quickly at #1, but not all that much faster than Kirk. But it is #2 that kills him. Picard will want to develop a “relationship” with the woman. That’ll take months of time.
Kirk all the way.
Okay, somebody has to say it so I’ll venture into the realm of all that is base and debauched. If we’re going to include Sisko and Jainway, I’d like to see the episode where Jainway seduce the scantily clad green woman. Or better yet, have Jainway’s mind placed in 7 of 9’s body and let the Borg do the dirty work.
I agree with your assessment, but only by your criteria. Picard has his merits over Kirk. Okay, so JTK has the thoughtful stare into the distance. But Picard has the unique ability to say lines like “The line must be drawn here! This far, and no further.”, with that excellently determined and serious voice/facial expression.
If there was no Picard, who would get taken over by the Borg? Kirk couldn’t pull that off. Who’s going to say “Make it so, number one”?
I wish I could be alive in the 24th century… I’d invent the Space Ship Control Console Which Doesn’t Explode All The Time, and make a fortune. 
I think there should be a few ground rules for any StarFleet Captain going on a mission.
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The unusual distress beacon is a trap.
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The aliens who seem very friendly are setting a trap.
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You are either in, or heading towards, a trap.
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To avoid being scatterd across the bridge, buy BJ’s patented Non-Exploding Console
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Employ more engineers, because they always come up with the incredible idea to modify the tachyon beam/deflector shield/torpedo/tractor beam/warp core… and save the day.
Oh, and don’t forget
- The Prime Directive is always contravened in any episode in which it is mentioned, so don’t worry about it to much
7 of 9? I’d rather she seduced me!
BJ
Well, just have your melanin replace with chlorophyll and I’m guessing a sex change may be in order. I’ll get a job as the casting director and you’ll be a shoe-in for the role. That is, if I don’t undergo the procedure myself.
5(a): Document these ideas, so that after they’re used to save the day, they can be disseminated to the rest of Starfleet and become standard equipment in future epi… er, missions.
And I hate to be a wet blanket, but I’m afraid that Kirk v. Picard is apples and oranges. Kirk and his crew lived in the 23rd century, which oddly enough had attitudes very reminiscent of 1960s Earth. It was therefore de rigeur for Kirk to seduce every good looking alien chick that wandered through his life, and quite a few human women as well, to include some crew members. Evidently, sexual harrassment laws must have died out by that time, which probably accounts for the popularity of miniskirt uniforms for female crew members.
Picard, by contrast, lived in the 24th century, which, also by great coincidence, had attitudes strangely reminiscent of 1990s Earth. Women were seen much more as equal participants in Starfleet, and their uniforms reflected this. Although Riker may have taken some time to dally with a few choice alien babes, in general the theme was not quite so focused on scoring with green women.
Now, I admit to being much more familiar with Classic than NG, so if my analysis of the latter is flawed, please feel free to correct me. But in much the same way that Linoln can’t be compared to today’s presidents, so too must Kirk and Picard occupy different, yet equally revered, spots in the Star Trek pantheon.
- Rick
I think Bricker’s comments hit the nail on the head… It’s hard to compare the two. Then again it doesn’t matter much because I think Sisko kicks everyone’s ass. I mean, the guy’s a demigod. What can you do?
As for the engineering thing… I think the Federation could conquer all four quadrants in no time flat if they just got a few Cheif Engineers together in a room, and brainstorm for a few months. Together they’d come up with enough technology to make the Fleet invincible. Hey, they even found a way to fight back Species 4792 (anyone see that episode?)
I have a theory on the success of Star Trek. I think it combines the whole SFX thing with a soap opera-ish addictiveness. How different are the people who say “I have to see what happens to X on Days of our Lives” and those of us who say “I have to see what happens to Dukat on DS9”?
BJ
I come from a long line of star-trek addicted people. Picard has my vote.
Yet I have to voice the heretical opinion that Babylon 5 kicks Star Trek butt. Prime directive my schmime directive, let’s kick some Galactic Ass!
Carpe Jugulum
Does Kirk not get proper credit for pioneering the Kobayashi maneuver?
I’d just like to add that Picard’s, shall we say, romantic abilities, are less apparent because TNG already has a dashing wimmin-seducer, and Picard is much too polite to steal the limelight from his trusty flyboy first officer.
To Glitch’s challenge:
1)Picard. Darmok and Jilad at Tanagra (sp?)
2)Kirk. I’ll give you that.
3)Picard. There have been times when Starfleet was frustrated with his yapping about the sanctity of the prime directive. I’m not saying he follows it all the time, but as far as speaking eloquently on its behalf, it’s no contest.
4)Picard. The key here is “heavily muscled aliens” and we see very few of them in the 23rd century. Also, it is apparent the Kirk has let his love of Romulan ale and green women play havoc with the physique. Those uniforms don’t lie. Picard trains on the holodeck. He was stabbed in the heart and lived. His temper is much more convincing. He’s an ass-kicker, through and through. Kirk… not so much.
I prefer to think of it as a “best of four” rather than a timed contest. So I will do so. Picard wins 3 to 1.
I done run for president.
Didn’t win, though.
My votes for the contest:
- Discover a previously unknown life form, and successfully communicate negociate a peaceful solution with he/she/it.
I say either Picard or Janeway, despite her tripping over herself when she first got to the Delta quadrant.
- Seduce a scantily clad green woman.
Kirk, of course, but Riker has his charms as well.
- Write a 30 page essay on “Why it is important to FOLLOW the Prime Directive?”
Janeway, then Picard, then maybe Sisko.
- Beat the crap out of three (3) heavily muscled aliens.
Kirk, then Sisko, although Picard in his Elite Strike Force mode works, too.
Hardly heretical - although I’m a huge Star Trek fan, I subscibed to Babylon 5 from Columbia House video and not ST. DS9 was getting a clue by doing longer-lasting multi-episode storylines towards the end, but Voyager is still one-shot driven.
Thoughts on Earth: Final Conflict? Rumor has it the 3rd season will be more one-shot and less arc, which I think will kill the show.
Esprix, who thinks maybe that would be its own thread…
I have to throw the Farscape shows in here too. Well written, with aliens almost as cool as B5’s. Farscape is by far the best sci-fi show currently airing.
Carpe Jugulum
I have to vote for Jason of Star Command…
Seriously, I always wanted to see Avery Brooks do Cpt. Sisco in character as Hawk from Spenser For Hire.
" Dukat-Don’t matter, you ready, not ready. Federation take you 24-7!"( menacing smile )
Now that would be TV!
Cecil said it. I believe it. That settles it.
Kirk always finds a way to win. It’s just what he does.
I used to have respect for Picard until I saw Generations.
I mean Picard got and old fashioned ass-whooping from Malcolm Mcdowell for crying out loud! What a wimp. THen he sulked for a while and tried to crawl under a rock.
What a loser.
So he goes into the nexus where he encounters an old, bloated, boozy looking Kirk who comes back and promptly beats up the British pansy with some patented Kirk Fu.
Picard Couldn’t handle this himself?
Here’s what happens in the contest.
Kirk subjugates the alien race to his will,while Picard rereads the Prime directive.
He of course subjugates them by having sex with their queen (who is a scantily clad green-skinned beauty.) The queen of course falls in love with Kirk and will do whatever he says.
While Picard is distracted attempting to open diplomatic relations with the the Queen’s race Kirk steals Picard’s essay and hands it in as his own (Picard never really figures out what happened.)
On the way back to the Enterprise the Queen’s old boyfriend and his three heavily muscled buddies ambush Kirk.
Kirk’s shirt gets badly ripped exposing his chest, but thanks to his trusty double-fisted overhanded hammer blow (seldom duplicated) he knocks his assailants out cold.
Kirk then beams up to the Enterprise to find that Scotty has detached the saucer section From the “New” enterprise and stolen all the snazzy new components from the Warp drive to supercharge his beloved engines.
Spock has disassembled Data, and declared his engineering as “fascinating.”
McCoy has cured Laforge’s blindness, who has decided to stay as Scottie’s apprentice (he really has the hots for Uhura who has been ordered to entice him.)
Riker and Worf miss the whole thing and are unable to help because they were on the holodeck when it malfunctioned and became real (again.)
This is a silly thread, everyone knows that Cpt. Taggart from Galaxy Quest was the best captan ever.
Mojo wrote:
No, that would be Marrissa Amber Flored Picard Gordon: http://home.netcom.com/~mblackwl/mst.htm
So by the 25th century, earth has either withdrawn from the federation, or the federation has collapsed. The seat of government has been moved from San Francisco to New Chicago. And earths 25th century values are more akin to those of the late 1970’s/early 80’s.
And colonel Erin Grey (I mean Wilma Deering) is required to wear skin-tight jumpsuits. mmmmmmm.
If you say it, mean it. If you mean it, do it.
If you do it, live it. If you live it, say it.
Joe Cool
While we’re comparing apples and oranges, I would like to say for the record that Han Solo would kick all them captains butts.
Just my opinion, do with it what you will.
(that and I’m amazed that a thread about Star Trek didn’t prompt star wars fans until now)
“If you can’t answer a man’s argument, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.” - Elbert Hubbard.