Kudos for VA! Or Why I like Gov Gilmore

Gotta admit, when Jim Gilmore runs on a one promise platform he comes through.

I just paid my Personal Property Tax for my cars (Ford Explorer and Jeep Wrangler. fatherjohn please take note wherever you are.)

Previously I would have paid about $500 on these wheels for the next 6 months. But because Jim Gilmore ran on ‘phase out the car tax’ and followed through I’m paying $185.

To put this in perspective several years ago we used to pay $400+ and all we had was a single 1992 Geo Prizm.

So thanks, Jim. Wish you could run again.

Why I don’t loke Gov. Gilmore:

I’m in one of those schools that got its funding cut for Gilmore’s precious car tax refund.

Not so pretty now, is it? Someone pays for that refund. You’re looking at one of those someones. And no, I don’t own a car. My family, however, owns a Saturn, SUV and suburban. However, I pay for my education, not them. So I don’t really get much out of it.

I will be rather unsurprised to see fewer students on campus next fall because of the raise in tuition.

Every so often, I get a letter from the City of Norfolk demanding that I pay personal property tax on a car I haven’t owned in six years. The last one I got also demanded tax for the preceding years. (I forget what it’s up to now.)

The car was junked for parts. Every time I get a letter, I call these people and explain that to them. I also explain that I am no longer a Virginia resident and haven’t been since 1995. I’ve followed up with letters and such, but I still get letters.

I don’t mind paying taxes. When they’re owed. And when the bureaucracy is responsive enough to handle changes.

Robin

      • Gee, I hate to seem like a snot, but why do you suppose that anyone else should be paying for your education? You probably picked that school from others based on your evaluation of what it offered compared to what it charged for tuition. That’s not something nearly as easy to do when it comes to taxes, but you may not notice that until you have your own house and car payments, retirement, and kids college funds of your own to save for.

“-Only three cars? How tragic–somebody call Sally Struthers right now!” - MC

“I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth…” came rushing to mind, then I realized it was pun posting.

I’ll run out and buy an additional four cars this evening to make up for my savings.

Well, maybe the personal insults will stop if I say that Gilmore is an idiot. EVERY STATE SCHOOL had its budget cut, for the second year in a row. Virginia has one of the best state school systems in the nation. Not for long. And you can only raise tution so much. The college I went to was $18,000 a year by the time I left, 4 years ago. I’m sure it’s much more now. State workers pay was cut. Gilmore’s OWN PARTY is revolting against him. I hope he gets voted out on his ass next election.

But then again, what do I expect from a state where it was seen as a good idea to make the Pledge mandatory, and if you didn’t like it, you were a “pinko commie.” :rolleyes:

He can’t run again. VA governors are limited to one term.

Zoff -

That’s what I thought I remembered, but wasn’t sure. Figured I’d look like a moron if I was wrong either way. :slight_smile:

Can’t… stop… from… repondibink

Cut funding of all public schools in the state? Feh. That’s why I (still) live in Maryland. :slight_smile:

Funny how the phrase ‘budget cuts’ keeps getting tossed around, isn’t it?

From the Virginia Government site:

http://www.vipnet.org/portal/redesign2000/searchRedesign2000.cgi?QueryText=budget

Note: You’ll have to click on the Education Budget Document link. It’s a PDF and I wasn’t sure about linking it.

Virginia Education Budget
(in millions of dollars)
FY2001
General Fund 5,703.3
Non-General Fund 3226.8
Total 8930.1

FY2002 (proposed)
General Fund 5792.3
Non-General Fund 3284.1
Total 9081.4

In other words, what is being described as a budget cut is, in fact, a 1.69% increase in funding.

And, just for fun…

Here

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A12637-2001Apr12.html

is a pretty article from todays (4/13/01) Washington Post about the rivalry between our respective governors, Parris Glendening and Jim Gilmore.

Not trying to rattle sabers here. It really is a good analysis.

His attitude toward the traffic problems of the Northern Virginia burbs, where I’ve spent much of my life, and where my father still lives, is basically one of ‘you can solve your problem any way you want to, but we’re not going to give you the authority to raise money yourselves to deal with the problem, nor is the state going to dedicate money to the problem, nor will the state give the localities adequate authority to engage in any sort of planning, land use, or growth management activities. And while you’re at it, if you ever need to skin a bear, here’s a toothpick. Good luck.’

The car tax - boy howdy, I’ve been debating this one since before I ever dreamed I’d be moving out of Virginia. When compared to other taxes, what the $%&! is wrong with the car tax?!?

I mean, Virginia still has a sales tax on groceries, fercryinoutloud. Dont’cha think you should get rid of that, first??

Let’s look at the car tax, just by itself, though.

The car tax, one would think, is a tax that even a conservative could love. My wife and I, in our last year in Virginia, with two reliable (if somewhat old) vehicles, paid a grand total of $59 in car taxes. We’ve occasionally spent more than that on dinner. So what’s the beef?

There are two things going on, really: affluent people are buying expensive SUVs and whatnot, and as a result, getting bigger car tax bills. (Awww.) And affluent localities are choosing to levy higher personal property tax rates than did the county I resided in, in order to help finance the government services that people in affluent suburbs have come to expect. (So affluent people are having to pay for what they get from government. Double awww.)

Still, the thing is, the personal property tax (in Virginia, and apparently in most of the states that have one) is a local tax, levied by a city or county; it’s one of their few alternatives to the property tax.

There are two other reasons, though, why conservatives should wait until every other tax has been phased out before going after the car tax: thrift and choice.

The choice, here, is in how much tax to pay: by deciding whether to buy a six-year-old Accord instead of a new SUV, I can drastically reduce my car-tax bill. Buy new and/or upscale, you pay more. Used and/or downscale, less. Simple.

And that fact means the tax encourages thrift, which used to be a conservative Good Thing.

But then, I’m a liberal. What do I know?

(So, when does this thread get moved to GD, where it belongs?)

I picked that school because it was the only one that would take me, MC, for what that’s worth. And I do pay taxes and I do save for college and I also will be working and going to school this summer (which I can’t do right now mostly because I have too little time and no car myself b/c I can’t afford one), and I am also trying to save for retirement and getting used to living well below my means (inasmuch as I can, being in college).

And God-willing in five years I will have a kid or two to watch out for.

So you can your argument and shove it where the car tax don’t shine.

Moderator’s Notes: Everybody cool it right now. I don’t care who started it, or who piled on later, but it’s gonna stop right now. And I’m gonna move it to GD.

Before I do though, I want to address a comment by RTFirefly.

True conservatives wish to reduce all taxes; there are none that we love.

Gee, here all this time I thought true conservativism was about local control and local decision-making…state’s rights and all that jazz. In this case I guess county or city rights.

The “car tax” or personal property tax in Virginia is (I believe) set and levied at teh county or city level for use on local matters. They should now how much they need to raise in revenues and what they can and not afford. In fact, Gilmore had to promise the counties that the state would replace the revenue that would be lost by eliminating the tax. My bill even indicates how much the state pays the county versus how much I do. That and also if the economy starts to slide, the phaseout is halted.

Now Fairfax County is the wealtiest county in the state. Hell, it’s one of the wealthiest in the nation. Yet we can’t afford to educate all the children here. Yet it can barely manage to keep its old schools from leaking or their new schools from filling up. It can’t pay for upkeep of its transportation infustructure, and the teachers recently protested. Many can’t afford to live here without moonlighting. I had the pleasure to go to two of the most delapidated high schools in the county. W T Wootson and JEB Stuart. Being in Wootson was almost like being back in Detroit Public Schools, wiring exposed, leaks everywhere, the building unable to keep a constant temperature. Stuart was just as bad, but lucked out in getting renovation funds before the economy started sputtering. But hey, if that car tax was too expensive, well so be it. Anyway the high schools won’t be suffering. The colleges will. Gilmore must have a tracking device on me!
OK so there’s an 1.7% increase in funding. How much did the cost of everything else go up due to inflation?

Inflation last year, based on the Consumer Price Index, was about 3%.

And yes, true conservatives also support state rights and local control. Just like liberals, we can support more than one issue.

The car tax had a lot of problems, image-wise. It was levied at an unusual time (October, I think, in most counties) and tended to “suprise” people. It was rather steep, on the premise that those who could afford a nice new car could also afford to pay a larger burden of the tax. That ignores the other, also numerous, subsection of the population that sinks a disproportionate amount of their income into a smooth ride. It was essentially a thirteenth car payment for many people, and a payment on a vehicle already paid off to others. In many cases, the tax did not offer a simple mileage depreciation nor did it allow for taxation based upon just appraisal. Therefore, some people were being taxed at rates out of proportion with the actual resale value of their vehicles. In short, the car tax had a lot of problems, problems which I think could have been fixed.

What the car tax did do fairly well was focus the local transportation tax burden on the people who actually used the road transportation infrastructure. I’m not happy that education once again took the hit for the (far from complete) revocation of the tax, nor that I will, by hook or by crook, once again be paying a disproportionate sum for road upkeep when I go out of my way not to use the roads. Before someone comes after me and says that I share the benefits of the road system through grocery deliveries, ambulance services, and other such things let’s not forget that the car tax didn’t exclusively fund those services, so I am already paying my part.

To put it another way, the car tax was eminently fair and equal to me. I didn’t pay the car tax, but I also don’t drive. If I wind up paying more tax to cover your free ride, how exactly is that fair?

      • You might have to explain the Virginia way of doing things to me, toots. The way I heard it, in most US states just about any public college you can pay the tuition of will accept you.
  • This statement, in the context of its use, is quite incorrect. You are not paying for this refund, others were paying for this subsidy.
  • And you can take your bad self and sign up for a course or two in macroeconomics, so that you will learn what raising taxes does to economic development. - MC

The car tax is the Old Dominion’s personal property tax that at one time IIRC, also taxed livestock and human beings.

It is of course, a stupid way to raise funds and keeps a large number of junk autos on the road long past their useful lives. (I myself keep a spare 91 with 162K miles on it, rather than splurge on a newer and more expensive used car.) It also supports a mind numbing bureaucracy that keeps tabs on everyone’s auto - and the cars’ Blue Book value.

Think about it… my refrigerator is worth more than my spare car, yet I don’t get a tax bill for it each year, nor do I have to make sure I have sufficient liquidity come tax time.

It is not and should never be, a choice between keeping this regressive tax and the needed spending on education and transportation. Raising Virginia’s income and motor fuel taxes could handle those needs but that is something Gilmore lacks in courage and political skill.

The dot-com recession in Northern Virginia is highlighting Virginia’s refusal to make the barest public investments in maintaining and improving an educational and transportation infrastructure. With traffic congestion as worse as in L.A., Virginia is lucky that Californian high tech businesses are more worried about their lights going out.

Yes, yes that means my taxes go up. Higher gas taxes are needed to improve roads, build bridges over the Potomac and add to the subway system. Higher income taxes are needed to improve public education. Does that mean that Virginia becomes as tax-happy as Maryland or New York? Not likely, but to make money, sometimes you have to spend money.