Somehow I always assumed that a guy who deliberately touched a strange woman’s boobs, butt or crotch in public would be risking arrest for sexual assault. Apparently women don’t take it that seriously? Or it simply happens so often that it’s too much of a hassle to raise a fuss? This thread actually surprises me. I can understand the situations where a woman is groped by a date or someone they know and simply refuse the contact, but how do you not call the cops if a stranger tries to grab your breast?
Growing up in NYC in the 70s it was a general risk of riding the subway. There’s a look we’d give the perpetrators to let them know just what type of pond scum they are. It was considered a nuisance not a crime back then.
Really? And they get there and you say, “he groped me” and he says, “no, I didn’t” and then what? It’s an offense without a shred of evidence 99% of the time. Ain’t nobody got time for that.
ETA: I’m not saying it shouldn’t be reported, just that I think most of us think it would be a waste of time.
Dude, if I’d called the cops every time an asshole had tried to grab my ass, I’d be banned from cops HQs on account of “wasting the cops’ time”…
Plus, there have been several occasions in which Appropriate Authorities have been called and let us just say that their reactions were far from the one desired. The new teacher groped several of us in 1981: my mother (who at the time was in the PTA’s board and I got sick of hearing how serenely she’d handled the situation) didn’t believe it until a former classmate made an off-hand remark about it in 2008. It doesn’t take many occasions like that to learn to keep your mouth shut and “dance away” from the gropers.
Don’t confuse hesitance to report or tell with not taking seriously.
I was getting a turquoise ring fitted for me when it happened (it was a present while we were on a family trip).
I never wore the ring, because I felt so gross when I saw it.
Like others have said, most of the time it’s too much trouble. My friend was walking through a set of double glass sliding doors and a guy was walking out. He grabbed her ass as he was walking by, and disappeared out the door. So we should chase him?
The first time I was groped it was in high school and it was by a member of this group of guys who I found out later did it to every freshman girl. Now I know I should have gone to my next teacher and told him. But this teacher was terrible at keeping the class calm. It was an English teacher, and I really remember sitting in the back row, dropping tears onto my work, and wondering why the teacher didn’t notice why I, who was his best student, was totally not participating and near tears.
It never even occured to me to tell him. I even started a thread around here - something like “How do young girls get the idea that authority figures can’t help?” Because at 14 I was already convinced he could not and would not help me. They were the popular boys at school, after all, upperclassmen, and I was just a freshman who was from another school.
The second time I was groped it was by a family member and that was a whole different kettle of fish, of course.
A guy here, and I didn’t realize it happened this often. I checked with my wife and was surprised to learn it has happened to her, once, in Italy when she was on a high school class trip. A guy riding a bicycle rode by and grabbed/slapped her butt. Apparently when she and her friends would walk along the street it was a fairly common occurrence. That was in the summer of 1980, on their trip to Rome and Florence.
It never happened to her while she ws growing up in California, or since.
There was a teacher in my high school (in the late ‘80s) who was really overt about looking down girls’ shirts, to the point where anyone with the barest hint of cleavage would put her hand over the gap between shirt and clothes if he walked behind your desk. You could see him get mad when girls did that, too, but he was so blatant at how much extra attention the big-chested girls got from him. He had done this for years, and the upperclassmen girls would pass down warnings to younger girls to warn them about him.
Behind his back we called him a nickname based around his first name, let’s say it was “Rapin’ Rob.” Some of us said it around the “cooler” teachers and they’d just minorly cluck at us, in a way that seemed disapproving of being disrespectful.
So yeah, we got the message loud and clear that no one gives a shit at all if you’re being leered at. If a teacher is coming up behind you and staring down your top. If he stands too close, tries to touch your shoulders. When the problem is your disrespectful nickname rather than his behavior, and none of his colleagues raised the issue with him to tell him to rein it the fuck in.
So it’s no leap to assume that no one will give a shit about you getting touched, either. Try to report an actual sexual assault and you risk “why were you wearing that/why did you go there/you probably just regret being such a whore about sleeping with him”, so what is a cop going to do if someone grabs your breast or ass or crotch? It’s he said/she said and it’s not like they can dust your tit for prints.
The other thread active even has a guy bringing out the old thing about “women want more and more sexual protection while being allowed to wear anything they want.” Because my dressing sexy is, as always, a cue for Rape-Boy to show up.
This is in 2013 and we’re still thinking like this. It’s upsetting and disturbing.
My wife is generally very observant of her surroundings. Shes told me she’s gotten groped a few times, but the few times its happened she responded with violence. Two of the times were at a club- one guy got a drink thrown at his face, the other got a fist.
In general, she tries to avoid depending on places that require her to be on guard for an extended period of time. As such she refuses to take public transportation because she feels like she cant really relax. It makes me, as a guy, feel privleged that I can completely zone out on a bus and not worry somebody is going to grab my crotch.
Its unfortunate more isnt done about women getting groped ( I too naively assumed a guy would always get busted for doing this. But I think the assumption is hearing about the minority of men that DID get caught and charged- though likely it wasnt the first time they tried it) but I think part of it is the woman, especially a teen, not wanting to draw attention to themselves. Even if they were to cause a big scene, and even if people were sympathetic, they have to explain what happened, and will get people saying stuff like “maybe next time dont get too distracted by that book/music/gameboy/etc” which, while technically correct, is unhelpful to the victim in the moment.
I’ve also heard some women resigned to the fact that they are gonna get groped in some places- like rock concerts. I guess in their case they try to pick their battles and tailor their response based on the setting. If a guy in a crowded concert squeezes their butt they’ll try to move away but its hard to see who did it much less prove it (as others have said). However in the workplace, classroom, or mixed friends they would make a big deal of it.
Unwanted touching is never ok. I think guys groping women like this are creepy and wrong, and wished for the victims’ sakes these assholes got punished every time it happened.
Right, there are cops who are skeptical of rape allegations. This news story tells about how Norfolk, Virginia police classified sexual assault claims to be not valid by default. This was only changed recently. And the Norfolk cops aren’t alone, there are other cities that do the same things. A lot of women’s stories about things that happen to them just aren’t believed unless they have five forms of ironclad proof, and even then they might not be believed.
If nothing is done when serious offenses like rape are reported, why would women bother reporting less serious offenses like groping? There’s just no point.
My wife rode the bus while in college.
She’s mentioned that she got groped front and back on a crowded bus on more than one occasion, but being 19 and scared, she never even moved, much less reported it.
I love big boobs more than anyone, but that’s pretty uncool in my book. Not yours? No touch!
This. I live in NYC and ride the subway every day. I don’t remember it ever happening.
Likely. My first gropage was around the age of 12.
Because we’re taught early on that no one (and especially no one in authority) takes it seriously. We’re told we’re making too big a deal out of it. We’re told that we were asking for it. We’re told that it wasn’t really on purpose, or that we imagined it. We’re told that we’re just a cold, stuck-up bitch. Etc. etc. etc…
Age 12 wasn’t the first time I was harassed, it was just the first time it became overtly sexual too rather than only “you’re fat, stupid, and ugly.” I’d already been attempting to get help from teachers/adults for years at that point, and they’d made it clear that they had no plans to do anything about it. I’d long since given up on them. So you don’t bother to mention it, because it won’t help and it gives the harasser more ammunition to hassle you with.
Also, if it’s a stranger on public transit or something, it’s often a “hit and run” where they’re just gone by the time you turn around to yell at them. Is there a point to calling the police when the dude is already long gone? Nothing will come of it, there’s just not the manpower to run down every incident like this when it happens so damn often.
I just wanted to reference this, too. I doubt any of my friends, and certainly not any of my family, knows about me being groped. I would never tell them. It’s just not the kind of thing that comes up.
Once I was talking to a dear friend, and as she was talking, she came out with the fact that she had been molested as a child. She looked as surprised as you could, and continued, “I’ve never told anyone that before.” I talked to her a bit about it, but even then I didn’t bring up my situations or my history.
I would say the chances are high you know a lot of people, they just don’t talk about it.
Careful, please. It’s not like those that have been groped were wearing our potential victim-hood on our sleeve. It’s less, I think, about the way an individual woman carries herself than about boundary issues some guys have.
No, it’s not, and I, for one, am well and truly sick of being blamed for these guys’ unwillingness to control themselves.
“Correct” is saying to the guy “next time keep your damn hands to yourself.” Making me responsible for someone else’s bad behavior is seriously whacked.
Thats true. I was paraphrasing what unhelpful people might think. I dont actually believe it myself.
I do kind of wonder if the increase in cameras (both security and cellphone) helps to discourage this behavior. These days if someone does something inappropriate its more likey to be caught on camera. Its certainly catching more of the chronic offenders.
Yes, please. Note that some of us were groped as children, and I can’t think how a child carries herself can make a difference.
And as an adult, I know the engaged, assertive persona I need adopt in public, but it hasn’t helped.