Thanks!
But come to think of it–this woman the OP refers to would seem more the Walter Mathau character, no?
I’ve been following this thread, idly, but now I have to jump in on Quickie’s defense, too. He sometimes doesn’t say his words right, and so comes across as chauvinistic, but he’s very much a realist and knows that relationships are give-and-take, and he does give a lot. He keeps himself in good shape, and compromises and goes halfway more often than it seems.
<sob>
You like me.
You really like me.
<dabs tear>
Rather than solving the question “What’s in it for her?” for what appeals to you, find out what appeals to her, and see if you can answer the question “What’s in it for me?”
I think skiiing in lingerie would be worse
–whimper–
By happenstance, I own a caulking gun, matte knife, level ( for shelves AND windows ) and several mops. I also remove all traces of construction work/installation and rinse out the bucket when I’m finished mopping.
I’m also obscenely wealthy.
It truly is as much about intent, and the emotion behind the intent, as it is about the visuals. For all of the much-discussed facts of how visually oriented men are, lemme tell ya something. The wife and I, it ain’t such a great marriage. Last summer she invested in some lacy unmentionables in an attempt to warm things up.
The first evening, I was slack-jawed with lust. However, I very quickly realized that she was not one bit into it, that it was a calculated set of moves and the “visuals” lost all impact. ALL impact. So much for men being visual animals. It didn’t matter what she wore or didn’t wear.
It never has. I’d take any kind of clothing or none at all, if the power of love and affection and desire were true and strong. Maybe a bit of TMI, but it seemed appropriate.
Cartooniverse
So, where did you say you lived? And how’re YOU doin’? (I like the idea of a man who has a toolbox and isn’t afraid to use it. Unfortunately, I don’t particularly want to date. Or interact with anyone. It’s a bit of a drawback in finding a boyfriend, that.)
[QUOTE=Cartooniverse
It never has. I’d take any kind of clothing or none at all, if the power of love and affection and desire were true and strong. Maybe a bit of TMI, but it seemed appropriate.
Cartooniverse[/QUOTE]
This is very true. To use a related example from my own life: I have often asked that my husband rub my feet(socks on or off). Feet rubbing is a wonderful thing that makes me want to do just about anything to make the rubber as happy as his rubbing made me.
But, my husband would(rarely) acquiese, but rub so mechanically and so “I don’t want to do this” that it isn’t something I want to pursue with him, again. He didn’t have an aversion to feet. He just didn’t want to be bothered-it was almost as if since he didn’t enjoy it, he couldn’t understand why anyone else would.
I guess one could say “too bad, so sad” and treat it just like another “kink”. But it’s not a kink–I don’t require foot rubbing to get aroused (it’s an extra)-it’s a way to show me affection and for me to relax. I have done things for him that I was meh about, but that meant alot to him. I didn’t think, “what’s in it for me?”-but maybe that’s more common than I thought?
It’s the lack of reciprocity-the you scratch my back, and there’s a brick wall over there for you-that I mind so much.
I can’t speak for you, Cartoon --but I do know that if I were on the receiving end of such a mechanical display, I would feel more pissed than if the attempt had never been made!
I really like Dan Savage’s “GGG” model. “Good, giving and game.” Basically he says that partners ought to at least have an open mind about whatever little kinks and quirks get the other going. At least TRY, y’know? Maybe it doesn’t do anything for you personally, but having your partner in awe of you because you’re willing to do something special might really float your boat. So maybe as a chick the lingerie thing does nothing specific for you, intrinsically, but it makes him bark like a dog, and you get the rogering of your life–this is win/win. So then maybe later he’s more willing to go along with pretending to be the stern principal/cabana boy/pirate of YOUR dreams? After a while of keeping the open mind and willing spirit to go along with scenarios just to please the other it’s pretty likely that both of you will discover some things about each other and even yourself that would never have been learned by staying safely in the comfort zone.
Maybe the only thing you learn is that it’s enough to know the GGG attitude is there–that you don’t really need to play games or dress up to keep things spicy, but if you really want to… it’s there.
I don’t like typical lingerie much myself, since polyester makes me itch and silk’s a little spendy, but I’ve been known to put together amusing outfits from the thrift store–once the pleated skirt, oxford shirt, knee socks and mary janes look (THAT worked out VERY nicely!) One Valentine’s day when the SO was working a late swing shift I decked out in an oversized red men’s silk shirt and thigh high white stockings gartered with red ribbons and wrapped myself in a silky comforter and went to sleep on the couch. I woke up when he was unwrapping me to send me to bed, and the look on his face is still clear in my head many years later–as are the serious couch gymnastics that followed. I think those of us who have very visually oriented men are lucky–it’s so easy to knock their socks off! All I have to do is wear a short skirt and send him a text message to guess what color panties I have on and he’s a wild man when we hook up after work. Sometimes I just whisper to him that the undies I’m wearing are getting too old to keep–so please just rip them off so I can pitch them out–BOOM! I’m sorry for men sometimes, since us lady types are seldom so easy to suss out and impress. Poor dears, they aren’t too good at the imagination in the first place, usually, and then we complicate it worse by being notional and moving the mental furniture around.
Oh, and QuickSilver? That “what’s in it for me” chick sounds like a total twat. I’d kick her to the curb so fast her head’d swim. Just my opinion, mind you, but what a dickass thing to say…
Done.
Not cold and hard like that but we’ve had along talk and decided to call the whole thing off. Clearly we want different things in different ways and whatever we really like about each other is just not enough to make the disparities inconsequential. Not that this was a big love affair as we were only dating. Still, the entire conversation became a referendum on her character and self worth. I just wished her the best the world had to offer and appologized for making her so unhappy these last few weeks. Didn’t see much of a point in making her even more angry, defensive and insecure.
So single and prospect free once more. Feels right. My new road bicycle will be tuned and ready today. Just in time for the weekend. (It’s a sexy beast.) I think I’ve got my summer planned. 
Sounds like the right thing to have done, QS. Although I’m a little puzzled as to how you made her life miserable the past few weeks. However, doesn’t matter - it’s over and done with now, time to move on. As you said, it was a dating situation, not yet a real involvement. It can sting a bit, but no serious damage done.
Well, sometimes it’s just easier to appologize than continue to try and explain a point that has no chance of being heard or understood. I’m also sick with a nasty head cold and tired of trying to explain my position while she is being so defensive and bent on telling me how unreasonable I’ve been. I suppose it was simply the most expedient and least antagonistic way to go. I saw no reason to upset her further.
You’ve made me nostalgic for my ex-girlfriend. She loved her feet rubbed and had these sexy little soft feet with a these perfect little rough spots from running. She’d loved me to rub them and we’d watch movies sprawled on the couch with her feet in my lap. Then she’d rub me the right way too.
Good times… gooood tiiiimes…
For me, lingerie is just clothing, for getting dressed to go out. I like it to be pretty, but it absolutely has to be comfortable (i.e. cotton or silk). It goes with my clothes.
Sex, however, is best naked.
Tell that to the Supermodels!
Well, they are after all - Super.
In Utah, in the spring, you can find people skiing in bathing suits. It’s warm enough, and you can get a heckuva tan (In fact, you can get totally fried. Sunblock is highly recommended). There’s nothing that weird about it.
Just don’t fall, whatever you do. Spring skiing “corn snow” has the consistency of a snow cone, not chanpagne powder. It’s like falling on sandpaper. We speak from experience (in falling on corn snow, not on doing it in lingerie. the mere thought of it hurts.)
Perfect analogy, well-articulated. Go ahead, you spoke well on my behalf with this tale of feet gone awry. Me, I do love massaging a foot. The sole ( surely a misnomer, since massaging a sole is massaging a soul, but I digress )… the delicate arch, the Achilles tendon. -dreamy sigh-
Oh, man. You use tools, have money, *and * love giving foot rubs. If I could just get past the idea that we’d have to spend time together and all that crap, I’d be all over you like white on rice!
See, that’s the best part !!! Meet me behind the Buck’s County Playhouse, down by the river near where Jessica Savitch drowned. I’ll massage your feet, shower you with gold bullion and fix your house up- then magically vanish.