Large woman = "real woman" - huh?

In My Humble Opinion
61

Here’s one part of the reason for “real woman”, I think:

Even when I was at a healthy weight/body fat percentage and “in shape”, I was a size 16 on the bottom. My nutritionist told me that there is no way for me to get below that without becoming extremely unhealthy. I’ve been sick for the last 18 months and have gained a serious but not grotesque amount of weight.

I am not huge. I am heavy, but I am not malproportioned or a freak. I see women my size and bigger all the time–some healthy, some simply overweight for whatever reason.

But the clothing retail world treats me and other women above a size 14 like freaks of nature. All clothing stores strictly segregate us from the 14 and under sized women. I go into Marshall Fields, and there are at least two floors crammed with myriad different clothing lines, styles, colors, shapes, etc.

But if you’re over a size 14, you have to shop in a small department way up on the third floor, crammed into the least busy, least accessible section (I guess so that no one will have to see us in our shame as we seek out clothes to fit us). A good 1/3 of the clothes are ugly prints, grandma styles, or shoddily made items. Another 1/3 is either nice for a woman 35 or over or the industrial prison-matron look. Finally, 1/3 of this small department may be acceptable. That means that when this professional woman has to buy suits, there are maybe three to chose from, if I’m lucky.

Good luck finding youthful or classy stuff, because it’s hard (I’m 26). Most plus-size clothing designers seem to assume that 14 plus women are old and have no sense of fashion.

Some stores, like the Gap, have extended their sizes up to an 18 or a 20, but cut these so narrowly that larger women (who generally have a greater hip-to-waist ratio) can’t really fit into them.

The vast majority of stores in the mall are places I cannot shop in. Sometimes, if they deign to carry an XL, I can buy tops.

Yet I am constantly seeing styles in the 14 and unders that make me think, “That would be perfect for me if it came in an 18.” But it doesn’t.

I am tired of feeling like a freak who must be kept away from the skinny people. Fat is not catching. Or, in many cases, being built larger than most is not catching. This is what a lot of the “real woman” comments are reacting to (though I think it’s an offensive-sounding comment to make–I hate it myself.)

I’ve read that 50% of women are a size 14 or over. So why do we still get 1/8th as much retail space for clothing as women who are under a 14?

62

Value is equated with rarity.

Up until the industrial revolution, plentiful nutrition was hard to come by. Being fat was a rare accolade, it connoted wealth and proper upbringing. Therefore, fat men and women alike were considered attractive.

These days, plentiful nutrition is everywhere. Junk food is cheap and overmarketed and attractive. Being fat is a vice associated with lower economic classes, ignorance, laziness. Thin people are rare. Therefore, slim men and women alike are considered attractive.

Take an econ class and learn about how values are arbitrated in the marketplace before you start ranting and raving about my narrow views.

63

Among other basically dumb and insulting stuff which I won’t quote. (BTW this guy’s reading comprehension is poor. I mentioned 2 skinny women who share this view. Plus as a largish woman I must say i’ve never had any trouble with people thinking me physically unattractive. My partner thinks I’m gorgeous, as did quite a few lovers before him. So f*** you and your lame conclusions about me.)

So in case anyone thinks there is a grain of truth, here is an amusing site/cite. PBS kids tracks the photo process is a lowish budget mag -
http://pbskids.org/dontbuyit/entertainment/covermodel_1.html
This model has her whole body airbrushed skinnier! She’s a couple of sizes down in the image.

And here’s an interview with an airbusher who works for “men’s” publications.
http://pages.ivillage.com/brookefinnigan2001/genuinearticleezine/id24.html
She says 99% of the images are fake…

I suppose we all know the rest of it. The glamour photography industry; the lighting and makeup tricks; the aribrushing and digital manipulation; the little bits of tape; the cosmetic surgery and radical diets and eating disorders; that documentary on the Miss World contenders; bla bla bla. No news to anyone except the very very badly deluded, who are never going to get near an actual human woman.

64

Count me in on someone wouldn’t be interested in those guys in the least.

And I also know that my husband would not drop me for any of those women.

I wonder why you would say that both men & women (basically, all people) are shallow, that’s a pretty sad comment on your attitude toward, well, everybody.

65

I’m with Kallessa - there is no way in hell that I would give up my boyfriend of three years for anyone. You could put Jude Law and Kevin Spacey naked in front of me and I wouldn’t do anything except fantasize, even if I knew nobody would ever find out. I’d be willing to stake my life on the fact that my boyfriend would make the same decision (he doesn’t think Kevin Spacey is that hot anyway ;))

66

Hi Heart On My Sleeve. I’m with you on this.

Looks to me like transitionality is a troll.

Me no bite no more.

67

The media is devious and unrelenting in driving home the idea that we “normal” (read: not super skinny supermodels or starved looking actresses) can’t even be considered in the ball pqrk of “attractive”. Basically that industry has been telling the average american women that WE’RE not “real” because we don’t meet those standards, now we’re saying, those standards aren’t “real” and neither are the airbrushed, touched up models and actresses who do allegedly “meet” them.

Ciites? Recent (not sure what month, will look it up when I’m back in town and no longer suffering under dial-up), Ladies Home Journal article featuring Jamie Lee Curtis (the “Perfect” actress? Looked great in a leotard?). Also a 20/20 expose on magazines and the fashion industry where they show their little computer graphics tricks that make the impossible true.

Tbe term “real woman” is a backlash to that ideal, and it basically means is …we’re REAL, as in NOT:

Air Brushed,
Fed designer lettuce and 48 hour diet miracle by personal chefs
starved down to skin and bones to fit the hollywood or fashion world’s idea of “beauty”

Real as in opposed to fake, an impossible standard of beauty, airbrushed, media invention.

68

<----------Grabs Evil Captor and kisses him soundly.

You’re SO right. I don’t get it either. I dated (online) several guys from the LA area, and all of them were of the type that liked what they called “fluffy” women.

One even told me that I, at size 10, was kinda small to be “fluffy” (for those men who are unfamiliar with women’s sizes, a 10 is one size larger than Drew Barrymore, Catherine Zeta-Jones, Cindy Crawford, etc…even sizes are “whole” sizes, and tend to [supposedly] be shaped more for the “misses” with hips and boobs, and odd sizes are the “half sizes” and are generally for “juniors” or those iwth more boyish figures)

69

Oh look! It’s Tom Leykis and his buddy Howard Stern (vashykin).

Any bets on how long it’ll take our newest to get booted?

70

Careful, CanvasShoes. Bad things tend to happen to people who even obliquely acknowledge the existence of the ultra-secret Federal Designer Cabbage Development Program.

71

did any of you real women set a foot in a decent gym? we have those “fake” looking women in abundance. when you see it right in front of you, will you still claim its being digitally manipulated?

i have seen with my own eyes women looking more “unrealistic” than any celebrity example you can come up with. i am talking measurements like (chest/waist/hips) 36",23",40" at about 5’11" and 38" inseam. while i was fantasizing about the said chick my train of thoughts was interrupted by two black guys fantasizing on the same subject out loud :slight_smile:

i felt unworty :slight_smile: but it’s ok, we have guys to match that sort of a chick. like my friend who is 6’4" and 260lbs of LEAN muscle :slight_smile:

you do not have actors/celebs like that though because they look too conspicuous. they can’t be made to play “just a guy” or “girl next door.” but i assure you they are real.

frankly i dont even understand the concept of an “eating disorder.” as far as i am concerned when a person is fat - thats when he has an eating disorder.

72

I don’t go to gyms.

However, I do run/bike/do yoga/dance fairly regularly (as in 3-5 times a week). I weight train 3-4 times a week.

At a size 12, I am two sizes bigger than Drew Barrymore and Catherine Zeta-Jones. The women in my family are big-breasted, broad-shouldered, and large-hipped. I inherited the muscular gymnast’s legs from my dad’s side of the family.

I can’t fit into this 36-24-36 people are trying to shove me in. I’d have to get bones taken out to get a 36" hip. It’s how I’m made.

My cholesterol is good. My blood pressure is good. I wouldn’t mind losing ten pounds of fat and gaining more arm muscle, but that’s what my weight training is for.

My mother put me on starvation diets the year I hit puberty and started gaining weight. She only stopped after I got so thin that I was sick all the time. While other girls my age were shopping in women’s sizes, I was still buying children’s clothes. That’s no way for a 10- 15 year old to live. I was not even overweight when she put me on a diet. I’m not going to live like that.

Most of the girls I know who are “skinny” don’t have big breasts like the actresses do. Most girls I know don’t look like supermodels/actresses/etc., even if they ARE thin.

I don’t feel the need to crash diet and inject collagen in my lips and wear uncomfortable clothes and have lipo just to make some random guys appreciate me more. I don’t mind people thinking my body is attractive, but I’d much rather they liked me as a person than as a trophy.

If you like skinny girls, that’s great. But please do not think you speak for all guys–I’ve had several boyfriends (and a girlfriend) throughout my life, and all of them thought I was gorgeous.

YMMV.

73

vasyachkin You’re not only missing the point of the OP, but you’re bringing “examples” that are irrelevent to the OP into the mix.

No one in this thread has said that an obviously healthy girl who works out is “fake” or unreal.

And no one in this thread has even alluded to people like Halle Berry as being “fake” or an example of the impossible standards the media holds up. As far as I could see, people in this thread pretty much ignored the inference that “halle and only halle and others like her were perfect”.

Many people in this thread have made reasoned statements WITH backup regarding what it is that we ARE talking about. And trust me, in case it isn’t piercing the void yet, it AIN’T about dissing Halle, or the girl at the gym who happens to be fit.

It’s the “lollipop” headed super skinny anorexic-looking models and actresses that are touted by the media as “the ideal” by which all of us women should be judged.

Healthy girls with muscle are right there in the hotseat with the rest of we “normal” girls, getting judged RIGHT along with us.

“Euuuwww, she looks like a man,” or “Ummmm, Little lady, let me put down that big ole weight for you and get you one you can handle, you don’t want to get all ‘bulky’”.

Both you AND your buddy need to do a little reading comprehension, NO one here has said that normal healthy beautiful women like Berry aren’t worth admiring.

The thread has been talking about the backlash against the entertainment and fashion industry for its insistance on portraying those like Calista as the ideal, NOT like those of Halle Berry.

74

Ooops!!

<-----------tiptoes back to the GYM RANT in the pit where YES she complains about the REAL gym she works out in.

:smiley:

75

Of course Halle Berry isn’t fake. She looks healthy to me. But Halle Berry’s build is NOT the only beautiful one out there. And even if one person doesn’t find it attractive, it doesn’t mean that others don’t.

I don’t have a problem with Ms. Berry or Ms. Bellucci. I object to the premise that I HAVE to look like them or I am automatically ugly.

76

Uh-oh! I’m worried. How many women out there are actually cabbages? In disgiuse?
:eek:

Knorf
:confused:

77

Well, I’ve never been in a “fake” gym, but the gyms I’ve been in were usually filled with people who were there to work out. That meaning, there were people there of all shapes and sizes, etc. Of course there are people out there, men and women, who have perfect bodies and faces that aren’t digitally manipulated. That doesn’t mean models aren’t airbrushed in magazines.

I am as “real” as the next woman or head of cabbage or cucumber or whatever that comes along. I might be what you’d term fat, but whatever, I don’t really care what most other people’s opinions of me are. However, I have never looked at another living soul and felt “unworthy.” Anyone who thinks I am unworthy of their attention isn’t worth my time. I’m not interested in being some dumb armpiece for a man. I’m interested in having good conversations and and eating good meals and laughing with someone until our sides hurt. There are tons of other people out there like that, and those are the type of people I choose to surround myself with.

I know for a fact that men find me sexy, and some don’t. I know one in particular that is quite eager to get in my bed. There’s so much more to a person than their looks. Maybe when you grow up, vasyachkin, you’ll start to “see” that.

This… I’m sorry, you just sound … not so intelligent and I don’t even know what to say. Anorexia and bulimia are very real eating disorders, maybe you should educate yourself.

78

Raises hand.

No way

In fact, I find Brad Pitt repulsive. Clooney and Crowe look…OK but they’re not near my ideal. Not interested, not in the least.

As for the Halle Berry/Monica Bellucci spectrum – my husband dated a couple girls that looked like that - tall, skinny, etc. And he gave them up for me. So there :stuck_out_tongue:

Ah, yes, that would explain my husband with his unremarkable looks, disappearing hair, limp, paycheck 1/3 the size of mine, etc. - NOT.

Maybe it’s the women you’re hanging out with?

Some of you certainly are.

Gee, I’m soooooo glad you’re not pretentious or dishonest :rolleyes:

As long as a man has good hygiene and his looks don’t scare people as he walks down the street I’m not particularly fussy how he looks. Yes, sense of humor and intelligence ARE important, which men discover as they age, their hair falls out, their gut gets harder to keep under control, and their prostate starts to make life more complicated.

Sure, good looks are a good thing. We all like to look at people who are easy on the eyes. But when you grow up you realize that, in the end, if we live so long, we’ll all end up bald and toothless and wrinkled and looks aren’t the only thing.

79

Oh, transitionality? One last thing.

If this was meant to be an attack on my eating habits, you can shove it. The things I eat mostly are fruits, vegetables, dairy, and whole grains.

Rarely if ever do I eat “bonbons.” My eating habits have been healthy; I lost a lot of weight a year ago and have kept it off while adding muscle.

Occasionally I will indulge in cookies or pizza or french fries or some extremely unhealthy something, but for the most part those are rare treats.

So maybe you should put your assumptions someplace else, you know, the same place where your head might reside.

80

Heh. Ad hominem is such a convincing argument.

Calling me an asshole and an idiot makes me want to believe your contentions.

For what it’s worth, I don’t know any guys who think Calista Flockhart is sexy, either. Guys in general prefer emphasized secondary sexual characteristics. Large boobs, thin waist, round butt, long legs, full lips, and the like.

This does not mean voluptuous. The word has been hijacked by fat women and completely corrupted from its former sense of “pleasantly curvy” to mean something like “fatass, but I’m in denial about it”.

There might be one man out of a thousand who likes fat women. I’m not going to deny that. People have all sorts of fetishes. There is also one man out of a thousand who likes to have women defecate on him. You go ahead and make the connection.

P.S. I see these so-called “unreal” women each and every day of my life in the flesh. They are very much real I assure you. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just in denial.