Last night's Buffy - did they weasel out?

I only watch the show occasionally, so I would like the opinions of the Buffy fans. What did you think about last nights episode?

Did they weasel out when they declared at the last minute that Willow’s girlfriend wasn’t part demon? I thought they were finally making that character interesting.

Also, I gagged at the overly sentimental ending. Ahhhh, the two young people in love are dancing. And they’re so happy they’re literally FLOATING ON AIR. Bleh.

But again, I want to hear from the serious fans. If the fans liked it, then it was a successful episode.

Yeah, they totally weaseled out. I WANTED them to make her a demon, so much cooler that way. And they weaseled out when they didn’t show any girl-on-girl kissing.

Right on, lesa!

I’m starting to like Angel much more than Buffy. In my experience, once you introduce a small, cute, “little sister” or “little brother” character, the show goes downhill fast. I believe it’s known as Gaudere’s Law…no wait, it’s the Law of “Scrappy” from Scooby Doo.

I regret to say I missed Buffy last night for the election returns, so I can’t comment on the episode.

The Dawn character isn’t really Buffy’s sister; she’s a energy made flesh and functions as some sort of “key.” My prediction is that Dawn gets killed at the end of the season.

Dawn is to Buffy what Poochy is to the Simpsons.
I still love the show.
Last night’s show? Kinda a cop out. I still wouldn’t say the possibility of her being a demon is totally out though.

I wouldn’t have cared if Tara was or was not a demon, but I wanted SOMETHING more than what we got.

I mean, they’ve been building the suspense around Tara’s “BIG SECRET” for a whole year now! And what do they give us as a resolution?

“Tara believed she was part demon, but, uh, she’s not.”

Make this item first on the Lame List, and underline it.

When I read the question I thought you were talking about the copping out of Dawn; i.e. not making her “really” Buffy’s sister. So in case the polls come back saying to get rid of her, we won’t feel so bad when they do.

Last night’s episode was kind of a cop out, too. I had hoped Tara would be a half-demon or something, and not just a plot gimmick.

Perhaps it was a cop out, but I think it was redeemed by Spike actually being the instrument of discovery. What the hey, it worked for me. That and I loved Spike’s comment on the “old family legend to keep the womanfolk in line.”

Actually, I thought the episode was one of the best I’ve seen so far (I only started watching last year, since that’s when the WB started broadcasting in this area). It was emotionally very strong.

I don’t think they’ve been hinting about any particularly big secret about Tara. All last year the hints were that she and Willow were moving toward a lesbian relationship. And, they didn’t show any kisses, but the did show them in bed together, which is pretty much a first.

OTOH, the origin of Dawn was a bit disappointing. Much more interesting if she turned out to be some sort of changeling.

Allow me to be a lone voice crying out in the wilderness and say I liked the Tara resolution. Personally, I think her family was vastly more creepy than most of the mindless demons we see causing all the property damage in the show. The fact that a human - and a family member no less - can be so evil has more emotional impact.

From lesa:

They did. Another demon? Been there, done that. Done that a LOT actually. Having a regular character whom I’d describe as a survivor of emotional abuse? Not so much.

I will say that they wimped out on the girl-on-girl kissage though. Damn WB.

Over to Dawn. The whole key thing is OK with me. Not a great dramatic twist, but I’m willing to see how it plays out. I do like the character. She’s more than just a cute kid and plot twist. She adds a dynamic to the Buffy and I’m always if favor of character development. They seem to be developing her nicely too, now that we’ve stopped trying to make her look evil.

But then I’ve never understood why people object whenever shows add a new character. Heck, I could easily defend Riley. Better to add a new character that overuse the same four so much we get sick of them.

I didn’t see any wimp out on either the Tara situation or the (absent) kiss. As Trion said, what could be more cliche than suddenly saying this character has these new powers/demons. Let’s see. We already have a werewolf, an ex-demon, a couple of witches, vampites galore, some kind of energy/key/person. Even Giles has some expertise and ability from being a watcher. Poor old Xander would get pretty lonely being the only one without special powers. Or would those kick in on HIS next birthday? Fer cryin out loud. She’s already a witch, and she added an entire romantic element to the show, expanding things beyond the Scooby gang. And I loved it when Spike smacked her.

Regarding Willow and Tara’s relationship. Come on! They were in bed together, slow dancing in mid-air together, declaring their love for each other. I think they have handled the relationship very well, and cleverly. My fave reference was when Dawn wrote in her diary that her mother doesn’t want her hanging out with Willow and Tara and doing the things they do together (Witchcraft? Lesbianism?) What are we doing here? Counting on-screen lesbo kisses? (Let’s see. Roseanne, um Ellen, …) Is that act more important than thoughtfully portraying a tender relationship?

To Dawn. Gotta agree on the Scooby-factor danger. Showing my age, does anyone else remember that annoying little girl on “My Three Sons”? Or Robbie’s triplets? They gotta be careful here. And what I don’t like about Dawn is that the writers have Buffy acting really stupid in her attempts to protect her.

I’m trying to figure out how this unidentified demon-chick is going to carry the whole season. Tho looking back, they have done a good job at developing new themes that really developed throughout each season. I miss the mayor. And Faith. Hubba hubba!

Final point, Even with Cordelia, I can’t get very excited about “Angel.” Of course, next week is a 2-hour extravaganza.

Well, I think I’ve written enough about this TV show this a.m. To conclude with an unbiased objective statement of fact, Buffy is clearly and undeniably the best hour on television.

Spoiler alert.

My reaction to the show was that I enjoyed the action on the periphery much more than the central story about Tara and her white trash family. I liked Riley going to Willy’s bar and having a drink with a vampire, Buffy’s description of their new foe as being like Cordelia, Buffy and Xander’s anxiety about what gift to get Tara and Giles’ calling them both idiots for doing so, and Spike’s fantasizing about Buffy while boinking Harmony. I thought the gang let Tara off the hook way too easily after her spell put them all in such danger. I miss Oz.

The wimpout on Tara is a fakeout. My wife Peggy and I spent a good couple hours talking about this. First off, the writers on Buffy are too good to give us a 1980s-style “nothing really changes” ending. And they laid lots of hints:

One, Tara’s dad made a few oblique references to something that happened to Tara’s mom. Yeah, he might have been just taking advantage of a mundane tragedy for the purpose of cowing the girl, but if that were the case, I think we’d’ve gotten the whole story at the end of the episode so it could be exploded by the gang.

Two, Tara’s not an ignorant little girl. She’s seen stuff that would scare the pants off most people, and she does have real power. If there weren’t something really there for her to fear, she would have figured it out eventually.

Three, there was too much character development on the rednecks from hell for them to be one-shot disposables. We’ll be seeing them again.

Four, we don’t think that Tara’s “sister” is really her sister. In her one-on-one confrontation with Tara after the casting, she kept saying things like “your father” and “your family” – not “Dad” or “us” or even “our father/family”. She also looks the most “normal” – the men seemed a little hillbilly/hickish, but she wouldn’t have been out of place anywhere in Sunnydale. In BTVS, this (ironically) always sets off my warning bells. We’ve got this strange, not-quite-founded conviction that she’s some kind of keeper.

Five, Spike’s chip isn’t omniscient. It can’t have some Star Trek-style sensor suite to figure out what’s human and what’s not at the moment Spike attacks it. Even for Buffytech that’s too much. Much more likely it runs off of Spike’s perception of the target. If he thinks of the target as “human”, it zarks him. If he doesn’t, it doesn’t. Therefore, all we (probably) know is that Spike believes Tara to be human. Nothing more. And his hots for Buffy aside, Spike’s opinion of the Scooby Gang is pretty much on the order of “lunch I can’t reach at the moment”, regardless of their abilities.

Peg and I can’t find too many counterarguments (which doesn’t mean they aren’t there)… The blonde’s inability to name a demon species when Anya demanded it could mean that it’s all a bluff – but seen from another angle it also looks like dodging a question she didn’t want to answer.

<shrug> Can anyone else tote up evidence on either side?

On another topic, does anyone else think that the Netherbimbo comes across a lot like Cthulhu channelled through Cindy Crawford? And am I the only one who sees in her an intentional resemblance to Claudia Christian’s character in the movie “Hexed”?

– Bob

<prognotication hijack>

My take on the whole Dawn thing is that she’s going to be the “key” (no pun intended, really) to the season finale to both Buffy and Angel - which will be, of course, “a crossover event.” The way I see it, the evil dimension/demon world that she is the key to is the one from which the evil army alluded to in Angel comes from. At the end of the season, evil demon lady is going to capture Dawn and take her to LA - which, as we know, really is the center of all evil - where Buffy and Angel are going to try, unsuccessfully, to keep the portal from opening. This probably won’t kill Dawn, but it won’t keep her around either (though I say if the fans don’t mind her, they’ll probably keep her as “the only way to close the portal”). After that, expect to see everybody scrambling every which way to muster the resources (which’ll include Faith, and possibly Spike, BTW) to fight off the archetypal army of darkness.

</prognotication hijack>

I loved it. It’s my favorite episode so far this season. As far as fan creds… well, I have every episode on tape, and I’m a bit of a diehard W/T shipper.

I thought it was very Joss, honestly… building her up to be a big bad, and then… not.

The wb execs said no smooching, and I’m surprised they got the snuggling in. Yeah, it was sentimental, but… it was great. I love how they undercut the absurdity of the WB’s policy- the spike sex scene was utterly ridiculous in comparison, as are the B/R sexathons.

Though I do think it was a little too easy. I bet that Tara’s past is going to continue to be explored. There’s more to it… I hvae faith in my tv show.

BTW, the girl Beth was Tara’s cousin, not her sister. I’d bet if any of them shows up again, it will be her.

Ah, we missed that detail. Well, that shoots down that point. Thanks!

Still… cousin on what side? And is she a candidate for this mysterious fate?

– Bob

What? I miss it for a year and my favorite character becomes a lesbian?

SCORE!!!

Anyone wanna fill me in on the plot of the ep where she comes out of the closet?

When is it on?

Smart lesbians. Mmmmm…

Actually, she never quite was in the closet. And it dates back to before Oz, I think… They hinted at it in the eps with the Vampire Willow from the parallel universe:

(from the Internet Movie Database)

– Bob

Okay, you ready for this?

willow’s bisexuality was very much hinted at in Doppelgangland (season 3), when her vamp self was quite obviously bi. (See the quote above.) There have been other hints, but that was the biggie.

In season four, after Oz left, Tara showed up. Her first episode was Hush (the silent episode… my favorite.) She wasn’t in the episode after that (Doomed) but appeared in every one after that.

Some of us noticed the subtext right away, but it became extremely obvious after a few episodes. In A New Man, for example, Willow came back to her dorm room after staying the whole night at Tara’s. The relationship was very much subtext- they used magic as a metaphor for sex. Did they ever… check out the spell scene in Who Are You? if you want to see just how much they stretched the metaphor.

Anyway, it was pretty obvious that they were a couple. The relationship became maintext in New Moon Rising, when Oz returned and Willow chose to be with Tara instead of him.

“Tara, I have to tell you…”
“No, I understand. You have to be with the person you love.”
“I am.”

Oooh… makes me all warm and squishy. :wink:

Anyway, in NMR Willow came out to Buffy. In The Yoko Factor she came out to the rest of the Scooby gang. This season, in Family, it was made clear that Tara is a full part of the gang and one of the good guys.

I’m not obsessed. I’m not. So there.

No, I didn’t think they weaseled out. I was more worried they were setting up Willow for a second time to be abandoned by the one she loves because of some uncontrolled evil inside. Glad they didn’t go there.

As for her <i>not</i> being a demon, I agree with Trion. It’s much creepier that the evil in this case was the human family, and the demon stuff being a manipulation tool.

I did think they reacted too smoothly to Tara putting the spell on them, and endangering them. But I understand the dynamics of the situation requiring a hard stand immediately.

Regarding the kiss, or lack thereof, I think they are doing a good job of portraying a deep relationship while tenuously treading the topic. A friend of mine is a little too uncomfortable with the amount of the relationship being shown. She tried to interest some other guy, a 50ish man who likes X-files, and the first episode he sees starts with two women in bed together. Either grab him or run him off.

Spike’s chip does present a dilemma. The point of the chip is it is supposed to prevent him from harming people. That’s great, but it makes him a pathetic loser, not a tough bad guy. He becomes comic relief, and his idiom is destroyed. So they let it off by letting him be able to hurt demons, just not people. So how does that work? How can the chip make a determination as Spike takes action? BobSchroeck’s description is a possibility that at least makes some sense. Though if Spike ever figures that out, it seems there could be a way to manipulate the system there.

Personally, I don’t see why Buffy lets him stay around. At first I could, but he’s shown that, in fact, he is far from harmless. He continues to manipulate and plan against them when the opportunity arises, and he did try to get the chip back out. It seems to me he is still a threat, and keeping him around is dangerous. But he stays just useful enough to want around. Which is good, because I like Spike, he’s interesting and very funny.

About the family, I didn’t catch that the girl was supposed to be Tara’s cousin. So I was trying to place her, and the sense I got was she was the Dad’s current girlfriend - pretty depressing that she’s about the same age as Tara. It fits with the part about the mother. While I don’t know that there are plans for the family to resurface, Joss and the writers have shown a knack for bringing secondary characters back again and again. Like the cowboy vampires that were brothers, and then Buffy killed one, and then the other kept hanging around? They tend to keep the history together, and bring back characters. Like the second slayer before Faith. We’ll see what they make of the family.

Dawn is another odd situation. It was very jarring at the beginning of the season to just insert her like she’d always been around - very unlike the show. At first I kinda fit her in as if she’d been living with the dad, but that was still a bad fit. Then they hinted at her unnatural origin, and finally let us in on the explanation. That explains the bad fit at the beginning. The sibling rivalry stuff is very unpleasant, and I hope they work through that quickly. Also, it does have Buffy acting weird in trying to protect her.

I find it funny the demon lady lives in a giant closet. She is very Cordelia.

As for the Scrappy Doo syndrome, that has often been the bane of a good show, but I think the problem is not necessarily the new character, but the changes that drive the need for the new character. Many of the shows that succumb to it are sitcoms, which by definition require a certain situation. In the case in question, the situation is often focused on having young kids - and after a few years the original kids are no longer young. That either forces a change to the premise, or requires the addition of a new young kid. Either way, it alters the dynamic. For sitcoms, that is usually bad. Thus the shows die quickly or suffer long drawn out painful deaths. The original premise doesn’t hold up.

Buffy, however, may be an exception (we will have to wait and see). Why? Because the nature of the show is its continual change. Joss has show immense creativity in introducing and removing characters, and keeping the story growing instead of static. The whole Angel is good, goes bad, is killed, then brought back good again thing, for instance. Buffy growing up, leaving high school and heading to college. Willow going from the nerdy quiet girl to the powerful witch and hot lesbian. This show has shown remarkable adaptability, so the introduction of a single new character is not likely to be its downfall.

What could kill the show, though, is the fact that Buffy continues to grow. At some point, the slayers all tend to die young - Buffy may be a first. Will she stay a slayer past age 30? 40? Will she retire, and a new one get “activiated”? How long can the show continue, when it grows away from the intended audience? (I could bring up the whole 90210 situation here as a parallel, but 90210 sucked anyway). The show is <i>meant</i> to appeal to teenagers and teen situations. (The audience seems to be much broader.) But when the characters are no longer teenagers, it is hard to keep dealing with those situations. Enter the new character, the younger sister and teenager. The question is can they keep the show appealing.