Laurie Jackson-Stein-Hewitt-Conrad-Jones. Does Hyphenating bug you?

In My Humble Opinion
81

Iceland has its own way of handling things. More info.

I hated my maiden name and I wasn’t overly fond of my future married name. They were not hypenateable at all. ( one syllable each, both too abrupt.)

I came up with the idea of melding the two names together. What I came up with was **Darn ** . That Darn Family. Another Darn Christmas Card. Another Darn Baby.

Naturally, I was thrilled with this and the future hilarity of it all.
My husband was not amused at all. bah!
I’ve informed him that when he dies, I’m changing my last name. To what, I haven’t decided. But Rockefeller-Von Hapburg is in the running. :slight_smile:

82

[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
I can never understand this feeling. If you couldn’t wait, why did you wait until you got married? Why not do it before?
[/QUOTE]

Arnie it cost money to change one’s name, money I did not have. Even so, it would have hurt my mothers feelings, aside from getting married.

83

[QUOTE=Dinsdale]
I don’t think I personally suggested any hate. Instead, I simply expressed my personal opinion that I consider certain naming practices to be silly and/or stupid.

[snip]

I just don’t like enough people enough to be bothered. Again, my personal opinion, nothing more or less. Doesn’t give me heartburn (nor does the use of Yiddish.)
[/QUOTE]

I think there is a huge difference between “I don’t care enough about names to make a point of remembering” and “That’s a stupid thing to do”.

I teach, so I have seen ever possible inter-familial variation of naming, and I agree–if it’s anything beyond the traditional, don’t expect me to remember. At the begining of any parent interaction, I will ask “Ms . . .is it Smith?” and sometimes before calling home I will ask a kid standing there “Is your mom Ms Smith?”, but I am not going to remember it, and unless it’s a parent I talk to a lot, the next time I am going to have the exact same conversation. I think it would be unreasonable for anyone to be offended by that, or to expect me to remember six months later that no, they are Ms. Smith-Jones or whatever.

But I would never say a family was dumb or stupid for doing something non-traditional, if for no other reason than I don’t know the backstory. Again, if they over react that I don’t remember, that’s stupid. But as long as they are cool and laid-back about it, I don’t see how it’s stupid.

84

[QUOTE=Arnold Winkelried]
I can never understand this feeling. If you couldn’t wait, why did you wait until you got married? Why not do it before?
[/QUOTE]

Because when getting married, it’s the one freebie change-your-name without confusing relatives and friends, incurring legal fees and bureaucratic headaches. No going before a judge, no newspaper adverts, no muss, no fuss, just…change your name.

Of course, one can *use *any name one likes, but for legal name changes, post-marriage is the easiest.

ETA:

[QUOTE=Manda Jo]
I teach, so I have seen ever possible inter-familial variation of naming, and I agree–if it’s anything beyond the traditional, don’t expect me to remember. At the begining of any parent interaction, I will ask “Ms . . .is it Smith?” and sometimes before calling home I will ask a kid standing there “Is your mom Ms Smith?”, but I am not going to remember it, and unless it’s a parent I talk to a lot, the next time I am going to have the exact same conversation. I think it would be unreasonable for anyone to be offended by that, or to expect me to remember six months later that no, they are Ms. Smith-Jones or whatever.
[/QUOTE]

Why don’t you just jot it down in your grade book? That’s what my mother does. She leaves an extra space after each kid’s name, so it looks like:

*Smith, Sally * mother - Mrs. Jones, step-father - Dr. Flynn

It’s a small task which immeasurably increases good will and better relations with your parents.

85

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Because when getting married, it’s the one freebie change-your-name without confusing relatives and friends, incurring legal fees and bureaucratic headaches. No going before a judge, no newspaper adverts, no muss, no fuss, just…change your name.

Of course, one can *use *any name one likes, but for legal name changes, post-marriage is the easiest.
[/QUOTE]

And it’s essentially done for you. Even in 1997, it would have been harder to keep my maiden name than to change names, so if you’re lazy, it’s the perfect opportunity. And I’m lazy.

86

[QUOTE=WhyNot]

Why don’t you just jot it down in your grade book? That’s what my mother does. She leaves an extra space after each kid’s name, so it looks like:

*Smith, Sally * mother - Mrs. Jones, step-father - Dr. Flynn

It’s a small task which immeasurably increases good will and better relations with your parents.
[/QUOTE]

Because I don’t have my gradebook when I see parents: I see them at football games or swim meets or fundraisers or in the grocery store. I also have 160 kids at a given time and we are talking about parents from years in the past as well as parents of kids I haven’t had yet who still know me as their kid’s future English teacher. If it’s distinctive, I may remember, but I’ll get my good will from remembering that Catherine is at Such and such a university now and I heard got whatever on her MCATs and aren’t I looking forward to having Jacob next year. If I can get all that–and I usually can–I don’t feel like I’m a slacker for not remembering Smith-Jones.

87

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Because when getting married, it’s the one freebie change-your-name without confusing relatives and friends, incurring legal fees and bureaucratic headaches. No going before a judge, no newspaper adverts, no muss, no fuss, just…change your name…
[/QUOTE]

At least if you’re a woman. While a husband has just as much right to his wife’s name as she does to his he’s still gonna have a hard time explaining it to friends, family, employers, & ignorant bureacrats.

88

[QUOTE=jsgoddess]
And it’s essentially done for you. Even in 1997, it would have been harder to keep my maiden name than to change names, so if you’re lazy, it’s the perfect opportunity. And I’m lazy.
[/QUOTE]

This sure wasn’t anything like my experience with changing my name when I got married. Didn’t you have any credit cards, utility bills, a driver’s license, Social Security card, passport, employer records, etc. that had to be updated? Because I sure did. It was a pain in the ass, and it’s amazing that even though it’s American tradition for a woman to take her husband’s name at marriage, every schmo you deal with acts as if you’re trying to do something that’s never been done before.

The easy thing would have been to leave my name alone. That is definitely what I recommend to everybody.

If you insist on changing your name, do it really early in life before you have an identity.

89

[QUOTE=WhyNot]

Why don’t you just jot it down in your grade book? That’s what my mother does. She leaves an extra space after each kid’s name, so it looks like:

*Smith, Sally * mother - Mrs. Jones, step-father - Dr. Flynn

It’s a small task which immeasurably increases good will and better relations with your parents.
[/QUOTE]

This is what I find annoying about this name business. It’s the idea that everyone else should put forth extra effort to accommodate your choices. Obviously it’s not that big of a deal, but it’s the principle of the matter. Why should I have to keep track of the various hyphens, who took who’s name, and what the kids last name ends up being? Why can’t you follow the simple and logical convention of society?

Obviously there are situations in which the convention doesn’t really work very well such as someone remarrying with kids from a previous relationship. I have no problem making exceptions in those cases, but absent a good reason a family should share their last name.

90

[QUOTE=treis]
This is what I find annoying about this name business. It’s the idea that everyone else should put forth extra effort to accommodate your choices. Obviously it’s not that big of a deal, but it’s the principle of the matter. Why should I have to keep track of the various hyphens, who took who’s name, and what the kids last name ends up being? Why can’t you follow the simple and logical convention of society?

Obviously there are situations in which the convention doesn’t really work very well such as someone remarrying with kids from a previous relationship. I have no problem making exceptions in those cases, but absent a good reason a family should share their last name.
[/QUOTE]

Is really, really liking your name a good enough reason? I kept my name because that’s who I am–it’s more unique and I identify with it more strongly than I do my given names. I don’t think that keeping your name demands other people make special accomodations as long as you don’t freak out or get offended when they don’t remember–someone calls me by my husband’s last name I might correct them, but I am just as likely to let it go if they aren’t someone I will see much–and the same goes for him if people assume he shares my last name.

91

[QUOTE=treis]
This is what I find annoying about this name business. It’s the idea that everyone else should put forth extra effort to accommodate your choices. Obviously it’s not that big of a deal, but it’s the principle of the matter. Why should I have to keep track of the various hyphens, who took who’s name, and what the kids last name ends up being? Why can’t you follow the simple and logical convention of society?

[/QUOTE]

Who’s society? (Or, I suppose, whose society?) Assuming that a woman will take her husband’s name and then give it to her children shows a galling Eurocentric bias, and a recent Eurocentric bias at that.

Even saying, “Ours! The current US society!” doesn’t work. It’s modern American people who are saying that we have the right to name ourselves, and that there are several ways of doing that. You and **Dinsdale **are the ones not following the current conventions of society. Not that I think the world is going to end as a result of that; but society changes, and you’re the one not keeping up!

But it’s just not logical to wish that other people used the one method you’re familiar that doesn’t work for them. Other people in other cultures, and other people even within the culture you’re a part of (the wealthy, the “end-of-the-family-name” women, etc.) have followed different conventions for centuries - your way is no more simple or logical than any of them, just more familiar to you.

Manda JO, that makes sense, and any parent who gets irritated with you for not knowing their name outside of, say parent-teacher conferences or non-emergency phone calls - that is, situations where you’ve got notes handy to consult - is an asshat. I’m only annoyed when someone’s looked up my phone number, but still calls me by my ex’s mother’s name. It makes me think she’s not got a handle on the basic information flow in her classroom, and that’s worrisome as a parent. I don’t “freak out”, but I do correct them, just as you do.

92

[QUOTE=Manda JO]
Is really, really liking your name a good enough reason? I kept my name because that’s who I am–it’s more unique and I identify with it more strongly than I do my given names. I don’t think that keeping your name demands other people make special accomodations as long as you don’t freak out or get offended when they don’t remember–someone calls me by my husband’s last name I might correct them, but I am just as likely to let it go if they aren’t someone I will see much–and the same goes for him if people assume he shares my last name.
[/QUOTE]

Sorry, no. Maybe if you really, really, REALLY liked your name. Obviously being cool about it is better than being a jerk, but it still leaves me wondering if you are really offended and are just being polite.

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
Who’s society? (Or, I suppose, whose society?) Assuming that a woman will take her husband’s name and then give it to her children shows a galling Eurocentric bias, and a recent Eurocentric bias at that.

Even saying, “Ours! The current US society!” doesn’t work. It’s modern American people who are saying that we have the right to name ourselves, and that there are several ways of doing that. You and Dinsdale are the ones not following the current conventions of society. Not that I think the world is going to end as a result of that; but society changes, and you’re the one not keeping up!

But it’s just not logical to wish that other people used the one method you’re familiar that doesn’t work for them. Other people in other cultures, and other people even within the culture you’re a part of (the wealthy, the “end-of-the-family-name” women, etc.) have followed different conventions for centuries - your way is no more simple or logical than any of them, just more familiar to you.
[/quote]

I never said anything about a woman taking her husband’s name. Your assuming that I meant that invalidates the rest of your argument. Regardless of the origin or how you want to define it, there is a societal expectation that when a couple gets married the women takes the man’s name. Now, I don’t really care where a name comes from, but absent a compelling reason a family should share a name.

I also take issue with the contention that Dinsdale and I are the ones that aren’t following the current convention. The majority of married couples still share the same family name. It’s those that wish to have different last names that demand special treatment.

93

[QUOTE=treis]
Sorry, no. Maybe if you really, really, REALLY liked your name. Obviously being cool about it is better than being a jerk, but it still leaves me wondering if you are really offended and are just being polite.

[/QUOTE]

How often do you even use the last names of people? I daresay 90% of the people I know don’t know I don’t share a name with my husband: the people we each work with know one or the other. I just don’t see how I am expecting everyone else to accomodate me in any way. They don’t have to do anything.

94

[QUOTE=treis]
I never said anything about a woman taking her husband’s name.
[/QUOTE]

So you weren’t talking about women taking their husband’s names? OK. Well, the argument still holds for any other custom - there is no worldwide, or even countrywide, custom for names anymore. To hold to one because it’s the right one, or the logical one is shortsighted. It’s the one you’re most comfortable with, sure. But there’s nothing inherintly correct or logical about it.

So…you *are *talking about a woman taking the man’s name?

Again, according to whom? Pretty much every country in South America disagrees. Iceland and other European countries disagree. Most Native American nations disagree. Many of the immigrants and children of immigrants who are US citizens disagree.

95

[QUOTE=Manda JO]
How often do you even use the last names of people? I daresay 90% of the people I know don’t know I don’t share a name with my husband: the people we each work with know one or the other. I just don’t see how I am expecting everyone else to accomodate me in any way. They don’t have to do anything.
[/QUOTE]

Relatively often. If I am addressing an envelope or referring to someone I would use their last name. For the sake of politeness that requires me to figure who wants to be called what. Yeah, it’s a pretty minor annoyance, but it’s an annoyance nonetheless. Like I said before, it’s more of the principle of the matter.

96

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
So you weren’t talking about women taking their husband’s names? OK. Well, the argument still holds for any other custom - there is no worldwide, or even countrywide, custom for names anymore. To hold to one because it’s the right one, or the logical one is shortsighted. It’s the one you’re most comfortable with, sure. But there’s nothing inherintly correct or logical about it.
[/quote]

Of course there is logic behind it. The point of a surname is to indicate what family you belong to. Hence “family name”.

[QUOTE=WhyNot]

So…you *are *talking about a woman taking the man’s name?
[/quote]

No, I’m talking about a family sharing a name. You assuming that I was talking about the woman taking the man’s name proves that the societal expectation you deny does exist. You didn’t think I was talking about the kids being named "Whatever"son or the woman being named Smith de Jones, or whatever.

[QUOTE=WhyNot]

Again, according to whom? Pretty much every country in South America disagrees. Iceland and other European countries disagree. Most Native American nations disagree. Many of the immigrants and children of immigrants who are US citizens disagree.
[/QUOTE]

Why do you think I care about South American naming conventions? This ain’t South America. I’m sure whatever naming conventions they have work for them, but that doesn’t change anything about our naming conventions.

97

[QUOTE=treis]
Of course there is logic behind it. The point of a surname is to indicate what family you belong to. Hence “family name”.
[/QUOTE]

So I don’t belong to my mother’s family? Or my father’s, after I marry? That’s unacceptable to me, even though I did take my husband’s name.

I assumed you were referring to the woman-takes-his-name because it’s been most discussed in this thread. And I wasn’t wrong, was I? I don’t disagree that it’s probably the most *common *way of handling it at this moment in this country. I disagree that it’s more right or logical than other system, and that it’s always going to be the way it’s done in this country, now or in the future.

98

[QUOTE=WhyNot]
So I don’t belong to my mother’s family? Or my father’s, after I marry? That’s unacceptable to me, even though I did take my husband’s name.
[/quote]

I never said that you did. Your most immediate family is your spouse and off-spring, and your name should reflect that. Besides, are you not just as much a member of your Grandmothers’ family as you are your Grandfathers’? At some point you have to start dropping names or it gets ridiculous.

[QUOTE=WhyNot]

I assumed you were referring to the woman-takes-his-name because it’s been most discussed in this thread. And I wasn’t wrong, was I? I don’t disagree that it’s probably the most *common *way of handling it at this moment in this country. I disagree that it’s more right or logical than other system, and that it’s always going to be the way it’s done in this country, now or in the future.
[/QUOTE]

I never said it was the most right or logical way to do names. It’s just the way that it’s done in this country. Since there is nothing wrong or illogical about it, and there are advantages of staying with it, we shouldn’t change. Unfortunately it’s the way of the world today. People don’t care anymore. They just want what they want and the hell with everyone else.

99

As stated earlier, I took my husbands name with glee and without trepidation. The thing is, I have no idea how or when it actually got changed. It just seemed to change. No one ever said “And what do you want your name to be?” I’m guessing it was the social security office, maybe. However, I’ve never been certain if my middle name is Marie or Maria. I tend to prefer Marie and have always used that. My old social just had the M. my new one has Marie and I’m not sure if whatever mechanism changed my last name, changed my middle name also. I’m sure I could get a copy of my birth certificate, but it’s just a curiousity at this point.

When does your name change? At the courthouse with the license? At the SS office? DMV?

100

[QUOTE=Swallowed My Cellphone]
It’s when couples merge their names together to create a new name for their kids that I really get confused. Like Jen Smith marries Pete Jones and their kids’ last name is “Smones.”

[/QUOTE]

I am a Smith by marriage (weep for me!). Within my family, my son and I are known as the Smitherns (It is just a nickname though I would love it to be our actual name).

Anything is better then Smith!

What happens a few generations down the line when Peter Smith-Jones-Mokoraka-Adams marries Elizabeth Brown-Baker-Heinrich-Rosenauer?

Samuel Smith-Jones-Mokoraka-Adams-Brown-Baker-Heinrich-Roseauer? Government forms are going to have to get HUGE.

At least when it becomes that ridiculous people will become more concerned about a whole name being missed out then a mere hyphen.