So, I’m in my second year of law school, and I’ve realized that there is one thing I’ve never done in my educational career: I’ve never studied in Europe. And the odds are that I’m not going to go for an LLM or Master’s degree, so law school is my last chance to do that.
Thing is, I’m not an international law guy - I’m hoping to work for the ACLU, or something similar. I think getting an international/comparative law perspective would be a useful thing, but it doesn’t tie directly into my career track - and, truth be told, the chief reason I’m interested is that studying abroad just sounds like a whole lot of fun. I like fun.
What I’d like to do is go abroad for my last semester of law school, probably to the University of Utrecht. Why Utrecht? Well, it seems like a solid school, and the city seems neat.
I’m going to be talking to friends, family, and law profs about this, but I’d like the Teeming Millions’ take as well. Is this a crazy idea? Going abroad will complicate my job search (I want to work in the US, after all), and means that I’ll only have one semester , after this one, for all my meat-and-potatoes law classes.
Am I gonna look like a flake to potential employers, or will they be thinking “Cool! We love guys who hare off to Europe for nerdy foreign legal adventures!”?
Your brutally honest feedback would be, as always, appreciated.
Wow, I am so jealous. Utrecht is a very cool place. The train station has the best soft eis (sp? soft ice cream), and the trains run fast and furious to other cool places. I don’t know anything about the law school, but I know that you would look back in sorrow if you don’t snatch this opportunity right now. I could make a silly joke about snatches in NL, but I’m above that (currently, subject to change). Can we come and stay with you on our next vacation?
Regards and best wishes, however you choose to play this one out.
Many law students (myself and my friends included) disn’t secure their first post-law school job until after they graduate, so sticking around the States to avoid missing a few interviews doesn’t make a lot of sense, IMHO.
Instead, I say get yourself to Europe! If I were a potential employer, I’d be impressed by someone who is not afraid to take on an adventure and try something new. And, from your perspective, it’s a chance to spend a semester in the Netherlands, with all that the Netherlands implies (if your into that sort of thing).
Go! Don’t look back! I’ve never met a person who regretted taking a chance to live overseas for a time. As someone who never did such a thing, I’m incredibly jealous of your opportunity.
As a fellow 2L who also wants to do domestic impact litigation work, I can only give you my advice as a peer.
The downsides of studying abroad as a 3L: can’t spend that time in a more relevant term-time internship; not developing connections with people who can get you jobs; not improving your GPA (depending on how your school does things); not available for in-person interviews for jobs, clerkships, etc.; it might come across as a diversion for the unserious student; and you won’t be taking advantage of any clinics or 3L seminars you might otherwise have access to.
The major upside, gaining a better understanding of international law, seems pretty suspect to me. What exactly will you be studying in Utrecht? While the ACLU is trying to work more and more international human rights law into their briefs, it isn’t particularly technical stuff. They’re just mentioning the Geneva Convention more often. My guess is that unless the Utrecht program specifically focuses on international human rights law, or possibly international environmental law, it isn’t going to help you very much. Certainly a semester spent studying the EU won’t do you any good.
In my eyes, if you want to work in a domestic market, the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages in terms of career prospects. That said, who wants to run their lives based on career prospects? I studied abroad in college and it was the best thing I did. I wouldn’t trade it for the world.
Ah, Utrecht. Close enough to A’dam to take the train in, or if you want to drive yourself then you can park at the Transferrium (name? - big parking area, near the football park) and take a local train into Central Station. I love the big city, but Utrecht seems very mellow to me - less traffic, fewer tourists, nice dining without the hassle. If you walk along the canal, there are many great restaurants where you can grab a beer and a plate of 10 different hams. Alert If you are looking for non-stop fun, it may not be your cup of tea.
Being so close to the city, the parks (do NOT miss the Kruller Muller museum in the national park, be sure to make use of their free white bicycles and pedal through the park to the museum, it was one of my greatest travel experiences in NL), Belgium and Germany (sorry, did they give back the motorcycles yet?), a train ride to almost anywhere - it really is an ideal location. And the local trams run like clockwork and will take you everywhere you need to go.
Just walking around the city, the neighborhoods (sod roofs!), and canals can fill up your time. The people are amazingly attractive (must be a Dutch law) and helpful when you need it, but leave you alone if you put out that “leave me alone” vibe.
I’ve stayed at the Ibis in Utrecht twice now, very nice but tiny rooms, and much more reasonable in price than a tiny room in A’dam.
The only bad thing I might mention about Utrecht is that our rental car was broken into and the radio was stolen. When we went to the police station, they apologized profusely and said it was happening more frequently (not just in Utrecht). So we drove through the rest of Europe was a sign stating “No Radio” in 3 languages. Other than that, I have nothing but praise for all of NL in general but specifically Utrecht.
Going to Europe to fuck around for a semester is something you do in undergrad, not post-grad. To me it makes you seem like someone who isn’t really all that serious about their law degree. There’s nothing wrong with taking 3-6 months between graduation and starting your job to go on an European adventure, though. Better than spending your European vacation time in a stuffy law lecture.
Hmm. Good points. The only thing I’d point out - which may not have been clear in my OP - is that I really do care about the classes I’d be taking in Utrecht. International human rights law, comparative law on approaches to terrorism, maybe some law and economics - these are interesting, important fields. I’d expect the classes to be challenging (U of Utrecht is a serious place), and I’d take them seriously. The only problem is that they don’t tie in that clearly to my career path. But the classes aren’t just an excuse to fuck around in Europe - they’d be one of the chief attractions of fucking around in Europe.
The only downside I can see is that if you plan to practice in the United States, as you say, you won’t be studying in a common law jurisdiction. (I don’t think the Netherlands is a common law jurisdiction.) This may be something that bothers potential employers, or at least narrows the possibilities: “So here’s a guy who only had two years of common law study, and he’s got a law degree and all, but he’s up against folks with three years of common law study–and we’re in a common law jurisdiction and we don’t do international law.”
Now, if you were to study abroad in a common law jurisdiction, you might not narrow your options quite so much. The UK is still close to Utrecht, or you could try a law school in Australia, New Zealand, or Canada. Heck, one guy from our law school headed off to study in Australia last year; and at least one of our law profs has degrees from three different countries (Canada, Australia, and the US) --but they’re all common law jurisdictions.
The decision is, of course, yours; but IMHO, this is something you should be thinking about anyway.
You don’t care what I think, because I work for a big firm, and you want to do public interest work, so I really have nothing to contribute. Nevertheless, here I go:
If I were interviewing you, I wouldn’t care that you spent a semester or a year overseas in law school, except to the extent that you used that as an excuse for why you’re not on law review, moot court, doing clinic, etc. We look for people who do well academically but who also stretch themselves to get involved in extracurriculars. So if all else is equal GPA-wise between you and some other random guy, but the other random guy is on a journal or doing moot court, and you said you couldn’t be on a journal because you were fucking around in Utrecht, you’d lose.
The only reason that this is potentially relevant is that a number of public interest places do not hire fresh out of law school. They prefer third associates from big firms who, while somewhat disillusioned by the realities of law firm life, have still managed to pick up sufficient training at said law firm to write a coherent memo, take a deposition, and know which table to stand at in court (skills/experiences generally beyond the new graduate).
That said, if I were you, I’d go to Utrecht. Life is too short.
Thanks, Campion. I appreciate the BigLaw perspective - as you say, I might find that the best way to get into public interest work is through a BigLaw stint.
I like fun.