Leave Us Abuse The French.......

The BBQ Pit
101

Perversion for prefering people who are not waifs? Then I guess I’m a pervert. And I would hazard a guess that a lot of Americans are also perverts.

So they like wearing thongs. The ladies seem to like it enough, as last I checked people in France had both nude and clothed beaches. Maybe they don’t care quite so much about fat people as you seem to. Regarding B.O., if they smell go away. If you don’t like the people don’t bother going.

Bacterial food: wine, cheese, bread, beer . . . these all require some form of bacteria. If they don’t have that bacteria they taste like shit. Or like nothing at all. I don’t see the problem with this.

And I believe that by saying this, not only have I dignified it (yecch), I’ve responded to it. Happy?

Why are you sorry? I’m not. I actually do take offense at that because as far as I can see you mean it.

I would rather have a French grandmother who was (albeit not always) a good person than an asshole American or anything else. The nationality only mattered here as a means of counterpoint.

My German (by descent, not birth) grandfather and Irish (by descent, not birth) great-grandmother, OTOH, were total assholes. It takes all kinds.

When someone starts a thread entitled “Leave us Abuse the Americans” you’ll probably cry “foul” or something. Try putting yourself in their shoes.

102

Two words. Dennis fucking Franz. When NYPD Blue was at its height, he was on the cover of how many women’s magazines? He was the male sex symbol of the year. So don’t talk about deep-rooted French perversion.

France certainly had no problem recognizing Laetitia Casta as an international beauty goddess.

The US is one of the only countries in the western world (or otherwise) that is so hung up on B.O. I don’t like it any more than you do, but at least appreciate that we are the exception, not the rule.

I am sorry to hear that you are preposterously ignorant. Maybe you will overcome your disability. But I had better hold my breath, because I don’t want to smell any of your filthy B.O.

I leave the rest of your twaddle to crash and burn on its own merit.

MR

103

Iampunha:

By all means start the thread. There is plenty to abuse about Americans, and I for one would join in with a few good ones.

You can attempt to defend the public viewing of fat, hairy, old man, cottage cheese asses all you like, but when you do, you merely make my point for me. It is A priori Wrong!

Gerard Depardieau is fat and has a big bulbous nose. This doesn’t make him a bad person (being French does that,) it does however make his status as a sex symbol somewhat suspect, wouldn’t you agree?

And that whole Jerry Lewis thing?

and the Berets?

This is not merely personal preferance or mild cultural differences. This is perverted!

I like cheese, bread, wine, and beer. Nothing wrong with them. The fact that they all have to rot first before they are served and the fact that the French excel at producing them is poetic. The French excel at rotting things because they are a rotten people.

Their foreign and domestic policies are object lessons in arrogant stupidity (which is a French trademark.) In short, they are a thoroughly ridiculous and unpleasant people.

This is not prejudice. I don’t think French people are dumber, less athletic, or in any way inferior to anybody else. It’s French culture that stinks.

That’s my opinion, so get off your moral high horse, Oh-I’m-so-offended-because-grandma-is-French attitude.

According to your own logic I have every right to be repulsed by the French and all things French as they do to be attracted to Gerard depardieau’s smelly, fat, hairy, ass. It’s just cultural differences, right?
BTW: I think you’re taking this way to seriously.

Whatever float’s your boat.

104

Maeglin:

Hmmm. Everything else you said is bullshit, but you do have a point with that Dennis Franz thing. I look at that as another example of how French influences are weakening U.S. culture.

As a rule, the French HATE america and Americans. I don’t hate them back, but I feel no pangs whatsoever about pointing out their cultural foibles and shortcomings.

I’m pissed at Iampunha’s Oh how dare you my grandmother is French, thing. What does that have to it?

105

You are right. Maybe iampunha and I are taking this entirely too seriously. If such an unbearably idiotic thought can even exist long enough in your head for it to reach your keyboard, then you have to be joking. But that doesn’t change the fact that the above is a pretty stupid supposition.

And what rule is this? Shit, I lived in France for awhile, and not once did I discover that they hate Americans. My SO happens to be French, and her family sure doesn’t hate Americans. And neither do any of their friends. And so on and so forth. They might just hate you.

Nothing at all. Take that up with him.

106

Well, with Scylla’s attitude towards the entire French people and culture, he will likely never go there. Good thing, since if he were to spew his utterly ignorant, narrow-minded, sanctimonious, pompous, ignorant (did I saw that already?) drivel to anyone there, and if even one French person thought he was representative of the other 280 million persons making up America, it would be that much worse for the rest of us.

107

You state this as if it were fact. It is your opinion that these guys are disgusting things who shouldn’t be allowed in public. They have as much of a right to be nude or wear few clothes as you do.

WRT GD (it’s Depardieu, I believe), that’s just what some French people like. That doesn’t make them evil or rotten or anything, does it? And the stuff about his appearance is your opinion. Some people like men who are neither waifs nor skinny-nosed. That you don’t indicates nothing more to me about some French people than that they don’t like what you do, which I don’t find to be a capitol offense.

Cecil covered the Jerry Lewis thing in a column a while back (I believe last year). Go find it yourself. Not very difficult.

The berets . . . so what? So some of them like wearing berets. I see nothing wrong with that.

“This is not merely personal preferance or mild cultural differences. This is perverted!”

This is neither perverted nor wrong. It is your opinion.

“I like cheese, bread, wine, and beer. Nothing wrong with them. The fact that they all have to rot first before they are served and the fact that the French excel at producing them is poetic. The French excel at rotting things because they are a rotten people.”

So that chain of thought means we are a baked, fried, broiled, skinned, etc people? And by the way, it takes either patience or skill to make cheese, bread, wine and beer. I don’t recall hearing you invent the next big thing in culinary art/design.

“Their foreign and domestic policies are object lessons in arrogant stupidity (which is a French trademark.) In short, they are a thoroughly ridiculous and unpleasant people.”

Whereas you are not.

“That’s my opinion, so get off your moral high horse, Oh-I’m-so-offended-because-grandma-is-French attitude.”

Well, when you insult someone’s lineage/heritage/etc, don’t expect him/her to take it lightly. I didn’t. Maybe you’d like me to insult you?

“According to your own logic I have every right to be repulsed by the French and all things French as they do to be attracted to Gerard depardieau’s smelly, fat, hairy, ass. It’s just cultural differences, right?”

Go ahead and be repulsed. Just don’t expect that repulsion to be embraced by people. I am repulsed, as I’ve said before, by people who are really, really skinny and could easily not be so skinny. I don’t go complaining about how unforgivably disgusting skinny people are. I don’t attach certain stereotypes from one skinny person to all skinny people. I don’t deliberately avoid them because of how one or two have acted around me. Heck, I’m friends with a good number of people on this board I think might look better if they stopped dieting and let themselves fill out a bit.

“BTW: I think you’re taking this way to seriously.”

Fine. Then suppose I go start a thread insulting your heritage. Maybe you won’t be insulted. Maybe you will. I was lightly insulted by the OP and further insulted by morons who think that all French people are unforgivable assholes who will never be able to stand next to Americans except in a public restroom.

108

You state this as if it were fact. It is your opinion that these guys are disgusting things who shouldn’t be allowed in public. They have as much of a right to be nude or wear few clothes as you do.

WRT GD (it’s Depardieu, I believe), that’s just what some French people like. That doesn’t make them evil or rotten or anything, does it? And the stuff about his appearance is your opinion. Some people like men who are neither waifs nor skinny-nosed. That you don’t indicates nothing more to me about some French people than that they don’t like what you do, which I don’t find to be a capitol offense.

Cecil covered the Jerry Lewis thing in a column a while back (I believe last year). Go find it yourself. Not very difficult.

The berets . . . so what? So some of them like wearing berets. I see nothing wrong with that.

“This is not merely personal preferance or mild cultural differences. This is perverted!”

This is neither perverted nor wrong. It is your opinion.

“I like cheese, bread, wine, and beer. Nothing wrong with them. The fact that they all have to rot first before they are served and the fact that the French excel at producing them is poetic. The French excel at rotting things because they are a rotten people.”

So that chain of thought means we are a baked, fried, broiled, skinned, etc people? And by the way, it takes either patience or skill to make cheese, bread, wine and beer. I don’t recall hearing you invent the next big thing in culinary art/design.

“Their foreign and domestic policies are object lessons in arrogant stupidity (which is a French trademark.) In short, they are a thoroughly ridiculous and unpleasant people.”

Whereas you are not. And no nation other than France has ever committed a policy mistake, right?

“That’s my opinion, so get off your moral high horse, Oh-I’m-so-offended-because-grandma-is-French attitude.”

Well, when you insult someone’s lineage/heritage/etc, don’t expect him/her to take it lightly. I didn’t. Maybe you’d like me to insult you?

“According to your own logic I have every right to be repulsed by the French and all things French as they do to be attracted to Gerard depardieau’s smelly, fat, hairy, ass. It’s just cultural differences, right?”

Go ahead and be repulsed. Just don’t expect that repulsion to be embraced by people. I am repulsed, as I’ve said before, by people who are really, really skinny and could easily not be so skinny. I don’t go complaining about how unforgivably disgusting skinny people are. I don’t attach certain stereotypes from one skinny person to all skinny people. I don’t deliberately avoid them because of how one or two have acted around me. Heck, I’m friends with a good number of people on this board I think might look better if they stopped dieting and let themselves fill out a bit.

“BTW: I think you’re taking this way to seriously.”

Fine. Then suppose I go start a thread insulting your heritage. Maybe you won’t be insulted. Maybe you will. I was lightly insulted by the OP and further insulted by people who think that all French people are unforgivable assholes who will never be able to stand next to Americans except in a public restroom.

109

  1. And US influences haven’t “weakened” French culture? Cultures mingling with eachother isn’t something I take as a weakness but as a strength. And how is Dennis Franz a French influence?

  2. You know, last I checked my grandmother only hated a few Americans, and that was mostly because her mother told her to (among them a woman with whom my grandfather cheated while he was engaged). She didn’t hate me and I’m American. When I was in France it was no secret that I was American. That didn’t seem to bother my French neighbors.

  3. When you go insulting my dead grandmother, you can bet I’ll be pissed! You go insulting my relatives, as a rule I’ll probably be pissed.

110

I’m not sure which is more funny. The humor of Scylla’s ravings or the WAY over-blown seriousness with which iampunha is approaching this thread.

Scylla: Did you hear about the dyslexic guy who tried to commit suicide by throwing himself behind a bus?
iampunha: You idiot, that’s not how dyslexia works!

Scylla: Janet Reno is so ugly the tears run over the back of her head to avoid her face!
iampunha: Is there something wrong with finding Janet Reno attractive?

Scylla: Why did the chicken cross the road? To get to the other side!
iampunha: How dare you? My grandmother was a chicken! And she never crossed any roads!

iampunha, do you suffer from HDD?

111

Will respond to this (for real) tomorrow. Father going to bed, so PC will soon be off.

112

I am not about to defend the French. France is a nuclear power and can take care of itself.

I am looking forward to reading this thread once it starts petering out. If it ever does.

113

Iampunha:

It’s the pit. I’m voicing opinions, Some French cultural traits are annoying and silly in my opinion.

Your heritage is a moot point as far as the validity or lack of validity of my views goes. You chose to make it personal.

Life is not the third grade where if you insult somebody’s mom, you have to go outside and fight. Get a thick skin and a sense of humor.

I’m half Irish, quarter Russian, quarter Scandinavian, and 100% American. Have at it, if it makes you feel better.

Damn, these French are so sensitive.

114

Exactly, and for the same reasons. Not to smack your chops here, Scylla, but we tangled over this issue before.

See, people are not conveniently separable from their culture. It’s impossible to wrap prejudice up in PC linen, e.g. I don’t hate the people, just their beliefs and ways of life.

Random academic absurdities aside, culture doesn’t just wander around on its own; people embody it and live it. It’s challenging and a true pisser, but there it is.

True fact, if one is to hate/disapprove of a culture it means putting that label on all the living souls within it. And that gets damned tricky, because what seems so glaring and obvious from the outside may–and often is–totally mistaken when viewed from the integral, internal reality.

Am I at ease among the French/Amish? Rarely. Is that their or my fault? Neither. Lapse of understanding? You bet. Hard? Oh, my, my, my, yes.

But hopeless? NO! People all around the world believe and do things that warp my mind–to my benefit. They don’t need my approval any more than I need theirs. But a generous dose of humility and willingness to learn is required.

IMO, it starts with believing most people do the best they can and express basic values differently. Those differences are maddening sometimes, but hard tests are the important ones.

Veb

115

Sorry Veb, you’re wrong. Individuals and cultures are not the same thing. You can speak accurate generalizations about cultures that don’t apply to individuals.

For example, those of African heritage tend to have darker skin than non Africans. A generalization, but also true.
The Children of Oriental americans tend to do better in school than average. Again, a generalization, but also true.

You might say, “Oh Yeah, there are numerous examples of Albinism among African Americans as well as thousands of Orientals failing math.” Big deal. You’re missing the point.

Nobody is a walking embodiment of a culture.

If this weren’t true statisticians wouldn’t have anything to measure.

Since this is the pit, I have to say that people that identify themselves solely on their culture or heritage probably do so because they lack any definable personality themselves, and have to resort to living the role of a stereotype.

In another example, it may be impossible to accurately predict the actions of an individual, but mob psychology is remarkably predictable.

Culturally and taken as a whole, I think French and Amish are ridiculous and worthy of contempt.

On the other hand I admire the Cajun culture, the American Black culture (which actually produces most of what we call culture in the U.S. anyway.) Does this mean I think all the individuals in those groups are automatically admirable. No.

I appreciate your pc states for culturally and racial harmony but again, this is the pit, so stick’em up your ass

:slight_smile:

116

Oh, Syclla? You hereby have my permission and instruction to wedge your puling excuses for prejudice right back up whatever orifice will offer you most gratification.

Don’t quote me out of context, wench, and don’t try to muddy your roiled waters by mixing the specific into the general. You want to hate? Then you *do[i/] it, but don’t try to cast your failures of heart and humanity onto me.

Now follow along…rules are rules; you set them, you follow them. You don’t pick and choose which generalized images are “okay”, based on arbitrary standards, and discard others.

This isn’t PC puling, it’s common sense and basic logic. In any group of people you’ll find good and bad exemplars. “Good and bad” can be measured by internal standards (often mystifying to outsiders, but nonetheless valid) or personal experience.

Understanding, or the willingness to understand other ways of thinking, is the most telling and personal reflection. So you hate the Amish and the French, but have decided–in your largeness of heart and mind–that various Afro-American cultures (and all participants) are “okay”.

Very gratifying, but rather suspect overall dependant on your possible exposure to those who may not live up to your preconceptions. The rest of humanity waits with bated breath.

With friends like you, who needs enemies?

See, the pure fact is this…perspective is all. Possibly, just possibly, your hatred reflects you more clearly than the objects of your disdain. Understanding does not imply agreement, but it does speak eloquently about the viewer.

Nothing is tackier, stupider of more deserving of the term “prejudiced” than one who insists on judging without first seeing.

Scylla, my sweet? You’re a bigot.

Veb

117

Veb:

Didn’t
quote you, so how could I have done so out of context? I’m not a she, and I’m not your sweet.

At least Iampunha was arguing based on the merits (or lack thereof,) of my arguments. You prefer to ignore them and rely on name calling. Oh I’m a bigot, am I? Yeah, you got me, I’m a card carrying member and Grand Wizard in a secret splinter group of the KKK which pretends to ally with Black people in order to wipe out the more insidious threat posed by the combined might of the French and Amish. There. I admit it.

My soul is a dark and shrunken thing filled with hate prejudice and stereotype and I must wipe out all those who differ from me because I feel diversity is a threat to my own airs of superiority which mask my own fears and inadequacy.

You accuse me of not knowing what I’m talking about, but I have extensive personal experience with the French and Amish. My personal opinion is that I don’t care for the cultures. I also think that Gary Indiana kinda sucks too, but I don’t feel too strongly about it. Wanna make something of that?

I’m not advocating the creation of a hate group here. I’m having fun with cultural differences and personal preferences.

If there’s something worse than French and Amish, it’s gotta be people like you walking around with a stick up their ass, pimping for the thought police to make sure everybody just fits into the neat little cubbyhole of PC thought, and don’t dare venture out and try to have fun or poke fun at yourself or anybody else, becuase boo-hoo you might hurt somebodies feelings or rub somebody the wrong way. God forbid somebody should try to have a thought on their own.

Again, please feel free to take your pop psychology and armchair judgements and stick’ em up your ass.

BTW, French suck!

118

If you’re going to voice opinions, Scylla, without making it clear that these are opinions and not what you consider to be factual things, and you don’t say as much, then yeah, I am going to hound your ass in this case. Note that since you said “in my opinion” above I have no reason to be angry at you, and as such I’m not. I am wondering if there are other reasons you feel this way.

My heredity has everything to do with you insulting my grandmother (and me). If you’ve got a problem with me being insulted by an insult, go become a halloween sacrifice.

WRT your heredity, I’ve no reason to mock that.

Scylla, basically my biggest problems with you are such: you appear not to care too much for human rights (the men with thongs) or individuality (one person, from what I have seen of your reasoning, must represent an entire culture). Correct me if I’m wrong on either of those.

[quote]
Originally posted by Scylla
BTW, French suck!

And Scyllas swallow.

Now to my dear freak:

“Scylla: Did you hear about the dyslexic guy who tried to commit suicide by throwing himself behind a bus?
iampunha: You idiot, that’s not how dyslexia works!”

I’d be interested in hearing the rest of that joke (if there is a “rest of the joke”).

“Scylla: Janet Reno is so ugly the tears run over the back of her head to avoid her face!”

Adding “I think” to the first bit makes that not a “fact” but an opinion. I just get irked when people say things like “X is ugly” and make that out to be a fact instead of their opinion.

119

Iampunha said:

"Scylla, basically my biggest problems with you are such: you appear not to care too much for human rights (the men with thongs) "

I almost fell off my chair laughing!

Try this thought experiment for me if you would:

Close your eyes.

Now picture yourself on a beach. It is crowded, but you are having a good time. Suddenly this hairy figure in front of you stands up.

It’s an older man. He’s large and hairy. He’s wearing a black thong that goes up his butt.

It’s right in front of you! You can’t escape!

Reluctantly you take in every detail:

The coarse black hairs travelling horizontally across the cratered cottage cheese surface, the enormous canyon of sagging fishbelly flesh, the zit pustules, all these are years to behold for that one horrible instant before you turn your head. You try to close your eyes, but the image has become emblazoned in your skull.

That’s enough I think.

WHat you are trying to tell me is that not only is this ok and attractive, but now it’s a basic human rights issue?

Dude, personal taste aside, if you think that sight is ok, you need help. It doesn’t matter, in French, English, Spanish, Amish, or even Armenian. Big fat hairy man ass is wrong wrong wrong! In the name of all things good and decent why can’t you just admit the evil inherent in the man-thong!

If they try to wear the thing, I say by all means violate their civil rights! Imprison them without sentence!

On a more serious note:

Let me try to explain something.

In the 1980s there was this cartoonist by the name of Callahan, who used to make dirty cartoons for Penthouse. An ongoing theme in these cartoons was making fun of handicapped people, spcifically people in wheelchairs, and parapalegics.

At one point in time there was an outcry against this kind of man-spirited humor, and a call for Penthouse to stop publishing his work. Penthouse snidely revealed that Callahan was in fact a parapalegic himself. Suddenly the outcry stopped. Why?

In Callahan’s autobiography Don’t worry he won’t get far on foot Callahan is quite angered by this. What does it matter if he himself is paralyzed? What merit does it have on his cartoons?

Well the same thing applies to you. I don’t care about your grandmother. You do. I didn’t start abusing the French with the intention of calling your grandmother a whore. You chose to place that spin on it. The fact that your grandmother is French doesn’t necessarily make your grandmother any more or less whorish than callahan’s being paralyzed makes his cartoons more or less PC, see?

Just pretend for a second that your grandmother was German and a member of the Nazi party, instead of French and doing her part for the resistance by giving German soldiers the clap (kidding, kidding.)

Well in this case it would be PC to say all kinds of bad stuff about the Nazis and by extension your grandmother. Some of those things may actually apply, others may not, but overrall Nazis in general were a group of bad guys, no?
By your logic, everybody with a German grandmother has to take offense every time somebody bad-mouths the nazis.

Even more serious:

I hate all groups. I hate whites blacks pinks French English Amish Lesbians, Gays, Chinese, Handicapped, etc etc.
As groups, people stink. You can poke fun of them. If somebody is so little a person that they have no individual identity outside of their own little special interest group, I say fuck 'em. There’s only one race, the human race, and culture is like clothing. It’s just the shirt you wear it’s not who you are. Stop pretending it is. If your shirt says “I’m with stupid,” I’m going to think you’re an idiot.

So, you like your Grandma. Good.

What things did she do that were typically French which you thought were silly? Did these things make her less of a special person to you?

What things did she do that made you love her which rose above culture and spoke of humanity? What made her a good person?

I’m sitting here talking about thongs, and tipping and cultural peccadilloes and your taking this as a personal attack. It’s not.

If you are going to try and convince me that French culture is really cool right now, and France is full of people who love American tourists, and that men in thongs is a good thing, Well, I got news for you. It ain’t gonna happen! France sucks!

If on the other hand you wanna tell me your Grandma was a great person. Fine. You may have a case. You’d have to tell me why though, the simple fact that she’s your grandma doesn’t prove shit.

Remember, Vlad the Impaler lived to be a Grandpa.

I’m gonna go kick a Croissant! Merde

120

Ok, Scylla, let me get this perfectly clear. It is possible that iampunha has a cool grandmother, despite the fact that she is French. Let’s say, for purposes of argument, that my girlfriend and her family, who happen to be French, are also good human beings. So let’s say then that iampunha and I find one hundred good French people who don’t exhibit any of the qualities that you hate. Would you be convinced that maybe France doesn’t suck as much as you thought? How bout a thousand? A hundred thousand? How many would it take?

It doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference, because you just said that no matter what anyone demonstrates to the contrary, tipping and thongs make French culture suck. The whole of France is suddenly reduced to the Characteristics That Scylla Doesn’t Like.

BTW, you read a modern French novel lately? Seen a play? Hear some music? Other than fat old men strutting around on beaches, do you know anything about French culture?

MR