Just in case anybody was wondering, I beat a french kid to death last night. Yup, he wouldn’t leave, so he had to go. I have found him to be a much better houseguest now. He even smells better.
I remember hearing from some news source quite a while ago that the French use the least amount of soap of any (west?)European country. I didn’t have a chance to dig any deeper (apparently researchers were having a hard time getting surveyors because the applicants kept finding out they would actually have to speak to a Frenchie), but here is what I have found so far. 
Well, this is certainly illuminating!
Is there room, y’suppose, for recognition joined with tolerance for cultural differences? Not agreement; no, no, no, but maybe truth cut with kindness?
Any country can be sterotyped, with a spin to suit to the beholder. Americans are obnoxiously friendly and obstreperous as St. Bernard pups; Brits are chilly, witty and repressed; Aussies are crude and vital; French are snotty, insular and elegant…and where does that leave any of us?
True fact, the sterotypes in my own country hold true in lots of ways. I’m a midwesterner; I wave at passing motorists, say “hi” to strangers and assume responsibility for anybody who crosses my path. Y’know, a hick.
The same behavior would be wrong, stupid and totally out of place elsewhere. Exuberant Brazilans aren’t wrong when contrasted with traditonal Japanese, just different.
Brits and French (and Japanese, etc.) folks who’ve lived around here made allowances–and learned. Basic courtesy here is intrusive elsewhere. Human good will is universal; I firmly believe that. The expression of that good will is subtle and variable.
Sorry. Pompous moment.
Veb
Four or five us should get together and conquer France again.
God, I hate those people almost as much as the Amish.
My dad has a great story about France. After he got out of college, he and a bunch of buddies went on a tour of Europe, and, naturally, stopped in France. They went to a supermarket to get supplies, and walked into the produce aisle. There, all the shoppers were picking up fruit, y’know, just testing it to see if it was ripe and everything. So, my dad and his friends go to do the same, so that they can buy the best fruit. Immediately, a clerk runs up, and starts shouting for them to put down the fruit, since they are “dirty american students.” Now, my dad and his pals were actually quite clean, having showered at the hotel, so my dad got real pissed off. He got into a huge fight with the clerk, all in french. Finally, he and the rest of the group stormed out. On the way out of the store, he realized for the first time that he could speak french, and had been doing so fluently througout the fight.
Oh, yeah, Scylla, let me in on the militia. I figure that any country that develops laws against bad grammar deserves a beating.
Jester, what are you talking about? The Académie is not a government body any more than Oxford University is.
Posts like this make me wonder about the intelligence of the average doper.
Scylla, if you think it’ll take only five dopers to do this you need a brain transplant . . . no, you need a new brain, and the old one needs to be destroyed.
Those people who have had unfortunate experiences as tourists in France with 0 knowledge of English: well, yeah. Duh. What do you imagine your reaction would be to tourists who came to the US knowing 0 English? Makes you think, doesn’t it?
BTW and FTR I did not think the OP was made tongue-in-cheek or anything of that sort. I did think it was rather ridiculous, as there were no links to the shit Bosda was saying (wine, the military bit, and the “no poets, scientists or artists in the 20th century” shit).
If this is how you’re all going to be when I go on vacation, maybe I should cancel it next time
iampuhna said:
“Scylla, if you think it’ll take only five dopers to do this you need a brain transplant . . . no, you need a new brain, and the old one needs to be destroyed.”
Okay, I don’t know bout the OP, but I’m pretty sure that Scylla was making a tounge in cheek reference, and a good one at that, to the fact that the French have surrendered in nearly every war they’ve ever fought. Seeing as how they don’t have the best military track record, I think that Scylla’s post was funny as hell. I thought that everybody else would get it, as well. Oops. My fault. 
Jester:
No I was being 100% serious. I really thought that maybe only 4 or 5 of us could actually conquer France. I had even gone so far as to buy a new case for my groundhog gun as well as some extra ammo. I was about to call a couple of friends, and set up the whole Coup D’etat thing (I guess the French invented that phrase because they were being conquered this way so much they might as well give it a name.) Anyway, now that I’ve read Iampunha’s post my hopes are dashed and I’ve learned the error of my ways.
I doubt that so few of us could do the job. Nobody could EVER break through the impenetrable Maginot line. Even if we did we’d surely be overpowered by their B.O.
I’ve been to France. I speak French passably and used to be fluent.
As a whole the French are a pompous, snide and picayune people. The whole culture is based upon adopting the attitude of a snivelling and spoiled child who has had everything in his self-serving little universe done for him.
There are absolutely prejudiced against America and Americans (and everybody else too for that matter,) so I feel absolutely justified in being snide right back at them.
I have met many Frenchmen and can tell you that they are universally assholes. All Frenchwoman are mindless moneygrubbing whores. This is true in the countryside as well as the cities. Between all my acquaintances and myself I feel that I can safely say that we’ve met most every Frenchperson extant as of 1997 or so. Most rules have an exception, so I am surprised to say that the universal shittiness of French people is an absolute. You’d think there would be at least one decent one somewhere, but no…
The only decent subculture in France is the Basque, but they’ve pretty much been systematically exterminated.
I’ve seen with my own eyes Frenchpeople swimming in their once beautiful beaches not 20 yards from an outlet pumping raw sewage into the ocean.
The electricity is all fucked up so you can’t even plug in an electric razor. They are resentful if you want to take a shower in one of their hotels. Four minutes of hot water is about average. Everything is dirty. Everybody wants a tip, but nobody does anything. The service is always bad. The cabbies always try to screw you by taking you the long way. Everybody has beady eyes. Gerard Depardieau is a sex symbol (the fat bastard.) Their meat has almost always gone bad by the time they serve it (the French don’t beleive in refrigeration.) Only the bread and wine is good. (the French excel at cuisine which needs to rot and become infested with bacteria before you serve it.) The French idea of a social program is “The Terror” (The basic idea is kill everybody.)
Perhaps I am being too hard on the French I heard things were a lot worse before they were conquered by the fascists who at least made them pull their act together a little bit during their short tenure there.
That was how I used to feel. Iampunha with his wishy washy I’m ok, your ok mealy mouthed blatherings, as well as his (or her) obvious vast experience with all things French has instantly changed my opinion.
I now realize that the French response to American culture is actually our fault. I mean, how can they help but feel defensive?
On my next visit to France I’ll be sure to change my ways and remember that I have it coming to me simply because I exist, as I am continuously abused by surly francophiles. I will also let them know that I think we have found one of their long lost countrymen here.
Have a nice day.
Did I mention that at the beaches most of the guys are fat and hairy? They ALL where those thongs that go right up the but, so your forced to see hairy, cottage cheese male French ass all the time.
Speaking of cheese, there’s another food which has to rot in bacteria for a while before it’s served. Unsurprisingly the French excel at making cheese, too.
THe surprising thing is that the rest of Europe is such a marvelous place to visit, filled with wondrous sites, culture, and courteous and pleasant folk. I would have thought that proximity to France would have contaminated the rest of Europe by now, but perhaps they’ve become innoculated culturally against them somehow.
The one and only good thing about visiting France is leaving. After you’ve been to France you really appreciate the rest of Europe.
I do have to say that the kindest and gentlest human being I have ever known told me that he left that county wishing he had more middle fingers.
Scylla, honey, if the French piss you off so much, you are perfectly welcome to stay out of their country.
While you’re at it, I’d appreciate it if you could avoid Quebec as well, particularly Montreal.
Is nothing sacred? It is every American’s (matt & matt, you all keep doin’ what you’re doin’) God-given right–nay, duty–to mock the French. Do not attempt to sway me with your well-reasoned pleas for consistency, your protests against my hypocrisy, your appeals to my reverence for the Golden Rule. I will have none of it, because the irresponsible lumping together of an entire nation full of individuals for the purpose of my own amusement defies these virtues. I hereby proclaim my intention, as a righteous citizen of the U.S. and A., to don without shame my garish shirt, fanny pack, and cowboy hat, and loudly make sport of the French at every available opportunity. They expect it of Americans, and it gives them a reason to hate us, so everybody wins.
So I’m gonna go get my BB gun, and learn to say vaguely menacing things in German, and I expect that Scylla and I should have the whole stupid country conquered by about lunchtime tomorrow.
Even though the French did take a dive in 1940, we Americans must remember that we owe our nation’s independence to the financial aid and military advisers given us by the French
during the American Revolution. Not to mention that they also gave us the Statue of Liberty.
I’ve been to France and enjoyed the place. Great food, nice people(except for one bitch at the Chartres train station),
and hot men who are excellent in bed, something I can vouch for from personal experience. France has given the world Diderot, Voltaire, Duras, Proust, Pasteur, the Curies, Edith Piaf, a glorious native cuisine, transcendent art that illumines the soul(y’all should have seen “The Impressionists at Argenteuil” show that closed at the National Gallery last Sunday.
What the stereotype fans and the PC crowd both ignore is France has an execrable record in international affairs: playing with the economies of the C.F.A. nations, supporting some really dodgy dictators in Francophone Africa, and ignoring health concerns in their testing nuclear weapons aboveground in the South Pacific. (Yes, we did that, too, but we stopped, the French have not.)The French also have a problem with racism against North African immigrants.
This is not to slam France, but to show that it has its flaws, as we do, and so do other nations. Every nation has a mix of the pleasant and the disagreeable and any other position is the product of an immature mind.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Scylla *
As a whole the French are a pompous, snide and picayune people. The whole culture is based upon adopting the attitude of a snivelling and spoiled child who has had everything in his self-serving little universe done for him.
[quote]
I’ll be sure to tell my grandmother that next time I visit her grave, Scylla. And when I go to France I’ll be sure to assume that all French people are pompous, snide and picayune despite my numerous experiences to the contrary.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Scylla *
There are absolutely prejudiced against America and Americans (and everybody else too for that matter,) so I feel absolutely justified in being snide right back at them.
[quote]
And you, on the other hand, are voicing an entirely unbiased opinion which is not subjective but objective, right?:rolleyes:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Scylla *
I have met many Frenchmen and can tell you that they are universally assholes. All Frenchwoman are mindless moneygrubbing whores. This is true in the countryside as well as the cities. Between all my acquaintances and myself I feel that I can safely say that we’ve met most every Frenchperson extant as of 1997 or so. Most rules have an exception, so I am surprised to say that the universal shittiness of French people is an absolute. You’d think there would be at least one decent one somewhere, but no…
[quote]
I’ll have to tell the French people my family knows that they’re all assholes. I had no idea, as when I went I found them perfectly lovely, including the one who saved my family’s asses when we almost took a bus that would have taken us in a direction totally opposite that we wanted.
As for the French women, I’ll again have to tell them that, as I didn’t get that sort of impression from the ones I met or the one who served as my grandmother until she died a few years back.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Scylla *
I’ve seen with my own eyes Frenchpeople swimming in their once beautiful beaches not 20 yards from an outlet pumping raw sewage into the ocean.
[quote]
Whereas our environs are perfect, right? We don’t have ANY problems with pollution. Those EPA acts are just so people think we care about an already perfect environment.
And do you think those French people know anything more about the pollution in their country than we do of ours? DO you think they can do any more about theirs than we can about ours?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Scylla *
The electricity is all fucked up so you can’t even plug in an electric razor. They are resentful if you want to take a shower in one of their hotels. Four minutes of hot water is about average. Everything is dirty. Everybody wants a tip, but nobody does anything. The service is always bad. The cabbies always try to screw you by taking you the long way. Everybody has beady eyes. Gerard Depardieau is a sex symbol (the fat bastard.) Their meat has almost always gone bad by the time they serve it (the French don’t beleive in refrigeration.)
[quote]
When I was in France, in a very old house (19th century, if not 18th), the only problem we had with the wiring was that we had to turn off everything in the hosue if we wanted to use the dryer. And in a hotel I thank God if I get 3 minutes of hot water in America. Also in America I find most of us want tips.
And, of course, we in America have perfect cabbies who try to save us as much money as possible.
That you think Gerard Depardieu is a sex symbol for them merely indicates that in your opinion, their tastes are different. What is wrong with having different tastes? Last I recalled, that was being different. I see no problem with that.
As for the bit about refrigeration, I must be remembering a dream when I recall going to French supermarkets and buying meat that had been frozen - much like an American supermarket except the food was better and there was more foreign stuff (mostly because it was more readily available).
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Scylla *
That was how I used to feel. Iampunha with his wishy washy I’m ok, your ok mealy mouthed blatherings, as well as his (or her) obvious vast experience with all things French has instantly changed my opinion.
[quote]
I’m a guy, as would be fairly obvious if you knew me. And I’m sad that I’ve instantly changed your opinion, as you won’t have the chance to contest them by gasp going to France and looking for something besides a shitty time and a shitty culture/people.
I’m not sure if that last bit was meant as an insult, but as the vast majority of negative posts about France have been by Americans, I’m more inclined to group myself with a people who not only don’t appear to have a VOICE on this board, they aren’t making judgments based on stereotypical inaccuracies.
If you go to France expecting the French to be assholes and to have a shitty time, it doesn’t take someone with the IQ of an eggplant to tell you you’re not going to have a great time. OTOH, if you go over there and DON’T do the ‘typical American’ thing, you should have a lovely time.
What the fuck was that all about?
MR
Sorry about that . . . I was about to press preview. Then I didn’t. Feel free to flame as necessary. I’ll be hiding over here cowering in shame.
Fuck that looks bad. Apologies to all those who can’t load the page now.
[frowny smiley deleted]
Nah, I don’t feel the need to flame you any further. Your remorse is enough for me. Not to mention I think you are on the right side of this argument.
MR
::Seeing Iampunha clearly in his sights::
…and still another thing, those French people are always screwing up the margins on my browser.
You make some good points in areas, but…
The Gerard Depardieau thing is just wrong! Wrong! Wrong! It is not just “different tastes.” THe fact that this man is considered sexy is proof positive of a deep-rooted perversion in the French society.
You also didn’t respond about B.O., bacteria food, or men’s thongs. Why? Because there is no defense, that’s why!
Sorry to hear about your grandmother being French. Take heart though. I know a guy who’s mother is French, but he managed to overcome this disability and became a success despite it, so perhaps there is hope for you as well.
Another thing I’ll say is that the French weren’t always rotten. At one point France helped out the U.S. (as was pointed out,) and used to be the incubator of science, art and culture in Europe.
French-derived Cajuns and Quebecois posess none of the drawbacks of the French themselves and represent wonderful cultural traditions in their own right. The cajun heartiness, cuisine, and friendliness is both legendary and true.
Maybe all the good French left? Maybe as a culture they decide that they had accomplished enough and were just going to be assholes from now on. Who knows?
The French, they are a funny race;
They fight with their feet
and fuck with their face!