Sigh. On with the nonexistent race issue again…
That is not true. The children have the option later.
Because it’s ridiculous and it eliminates Israel?
No. I think Gaza and the West Bank are territories with no formal government. Plus there is no way you can argue that Israel is an occupying force in Gaza.
It does not explicitly deny citizenship. We have proved that to you. It is not a matter of ‘a well oiled conspiracy’ so much as it is you ‘not understanding’.
As I understand it, Labour and its ideals are no longer in effect in Israel. Their people have abandoned them chosen Likud and Netanyahu and their bulldozers and walls and “settlements” instead. It isn’t the Seventies anymore, friend.
That’s a bit of an odd comment since the government that negotiated peace with Egypt in the 70s was not Labor, but a Likud government headed by a former “terrorist”.
The Labor government collapsed about ten years ago and were abandoned by the Israelis when Yasser Arafat, at Camp David, after being offered virtually all of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip as well as financial compensation for the refugees, said no, declared the Palestinians would reject any settlement that didn’t include The Right of Return(meaning no settlement that allowed for the continued existence of Israel as a Jewish state) got up and left and then started sending suicide bombers at Israel.
Labor was rejected because they were seen as idiots for trusting Arafat.
… and because, they, of all people, should know better. There was a hope, even an expectation, that their history would make that new country somehow at least better than the worst. For a good long while, that seemed to be the case, and US support naturally followed. Not so anymore, sadly. Now instead we see them supported, by the likes of Argent Towers, for simply being no worse than the Saudis.
You’re right. It** isn’t** the 70s. The Labor party lost its socialist identification a long time ago. Now those former Labor leaders are with center-left parties like Kadima, and they support a two state solution. And this is a Parliamentary system in which people can’t be categorized so easily…but Labor as a party is a minority now.
However.
The mess of 2006 resulted in a near even Likud v. non-Likud split in 2009, and the reason why there isn’t a Kadima government is because they couldn’t assume a coalition one because of some naysayer fringe parties.
Likud wasn’t “embraced”?
An overbroad statement, OK, but the reference was to the ideals of peace. Can you even imagine a Begin emerging today?
So you are saying that Israelis don’t want peace and Palestinians do?
More broad statements: Both are doing what they think they have to do to ensure their own survival and security. Neither currently has the vision to understand, and courage to do, what it takes to make it happen on any other basis than violence, though - which ensures it won’t happen at all.
So, can *you *imagine a Begin emerging today?
People always say this. That the Jews should “know better,” presumably because they had been so oppressed. Actually, I think the Jews of Israel have shown remarkable restraint in their dealings with their Arab enemies which ultimately resulted in the situation we have today. Any other people in the same situation would have just thrown all the Arabs out, conquered all the territory, and said “fuck you if you don’t like it.” This is how all other countries on the planet have operated in their history.
Israel has given up shitloads of land to Arabs over the past half century. After winning wars that Arabs started. Would anyone else in the world do something like this?
If they win, yes. What has changed, though, is that it’s unlikely NATO or the West would allow them to win. Remember Iraq and Kuwait, and witness Libya.
A+. Jews should always know better. Fuck that.
So, to summarize the reason why left-wing anti-Israel people feel the way they do, specifically directed at Israel:
- Israel has defenders in America, whereas other regimes doing brutal shit do not.
- The Jews should know better.
Makes sense to me.
Except one recognizes the other’s right to existence.
Half of Israel’s Parliament and most of the population want a two state solution, like, yesterday. It’s not that the rest deny it – the # of Jews who think the whole land is theirs for the taking is slim - but they are worried about certain cities that have since flourished for the last 40 years that could be returned if it falls on the 67 line.
Not to mention Jerusalem.
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Isn’t his name Netanyahu? :o No, seriously - in regards to what?
I offered some other reasons in post #228. Israel is just more known than other countries where people be getting killed and shit.
Well, obviously. I regularly see pictures posted on Facebook (including as peoples’ profile pictures) of the entire map of Israel filled in with the Palestinian flag.
Er yes.
Begin would NEVER have shaken hands with Arafat for one thing.
Moreover, can you imagine Begin, the man who’s whole life was defined by the Holocaust embracing a Holocaust Denier the way current Israeli leaders have been willing to negotiate with and praise Mahmoud Abbas.
Finally, you’re completely ignoring the fact that Ehud Barak offered a far, far better deal than anyone would have imagined in 2000(such a generous deal that he was condemned by Leah Rabin for doing so) and the response of the Palestinians was to reject the deal because it allowed for the continued existence of Israel as a Jewish state.
That’s why the Labor Party collapsed. Because the Palestinian leadership revealed itself to be negotiating in bad faith and to be completely unwilling to accept any deal that would allow for Israel’s continued existence.
When one side is saying the only thing we will accept is for you to commit suicide you can’t expect negotiations to succeed.
Not to mention that Begin also destroyed Iraq’s nuclear reactor. He thought it was a threat to Israel, so he had it bombed to smithereens. Could you imagine how something like that would play out today?
Here’s an American leftist with an anti-Jewish sentiment.