leg shackles degrading?

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

I found this amusing and very telling about the relativity of different cultures.

It is an article in a major newspaper in Madrid, Spain and it reports a Spanish manufacturer in the north of Spain has been exporting illegally items which are not approved in Spain (maybe Europe, I don’t know) and require a license to be exported anywhere else.

Only wrist cuffs are approved for use by Spanish police and ankle chains and chains that hold to the waist are considered degrading and cannot be used.

This firm was caught exporting to South America and the USA and they allege these items are in common use in those countries. You can tell a certain tone here. The company saying “we’re only doing business and we should not impose our values on other countries” and Amnesty International in Spain saying “yes in items used by repressive governments to degrade people”. Both cite the existance of the death penalty in the US to support their arguments. The manufacturer as to cultural difference and AI as proof of lack of respect for what they consider human values.

I find it amusing because I do not think anybody in the US would see this as degrading. It seems to me people in Europe, not being directly subjected to the level of violence of the US, do not understand the American point of view.

I really do not have any position on this issue. I am just amused by the cultural gap.

The photo that illustrates the article shows items that were being illegaly exported and chain gang prisoners in Alabama outfitted with these items.

2

I thought I would add a couple of links. One to the manufacturer’s web site where you can see the stuff they make (belly chains, leg cuffs… sound kind of erotic)

Also to the original article (in Spanish)

3

Degrading? hey, whatever two (or more) consenting adults…

Seriously - there are a lot of cases where they are excessive, but in some cases they make sense. Depends on how much a threat the person is. I think Susan Smith had them. Not needed. Charles Manson? I’d have him in so many chains we’d wheel him in on a dolly…

(P.S. - Smith is the one who belted her kids in the car and drove it into the lake. I’d glue her hands to the wheel and push it back in. She just isn’t much of a threat to the guards when cuffed.)

4

sailor - Not sure if I’d agree that it’s a “cultural” issue. I’d tend to think of it as maintaining basic human rights but each to their own.

Very few, if any, countries can stand up to close scrutiny (those in glass houses…) but, as it’s been raised, here’s some what Amnesty says about the States:

The international community of nations has adopted a wide range of
human rights standards for the protection of all humankind. These
articulate the criteria against which the human rights record of all states can
be judged.

   The USA helped to formulate many of them. It
   played a fundamental role in the adoption in
   1948 of the Universal Declaration of Human
   Rights, which proclaims the right of every
   human being to life and to freedom from cruel,
   inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
   The USA has repeatedly stressed the
   importance of international law and human
   rights while at the same time being reluctant to
   commit itself to those same standards. For
   example, it is one of only 10 countries that
   have not ratified the UN Convention on the
   Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination
   against Women and one of only two countries
   which have not ratified the UN Convention on
   the Rights of the Child. The USA has not
   ratified any regional human rights treaties.

From: http://www.rightsforall-usa.org/intro/index.html

5

I dunno… I guess i’ve been watching cops too much. You see idiots who have five cops on top of them and they are still resisting. I can’t see how chaining their feet or even hog-tying them would be degrading. well, yes it might be degrading in the same sense that being sent to prison is degrading. But you can avoid it if you don’t do what you shouldn’t.

I just think American society is much more violent and Europeans don’t quite understand it.

I have heard horror stories from Europeans visiting the US just because they do not understand this. Someone was telling me of the terror of driving a rented car here and being stopped by the police and seeing the cop approach gun in hand. Since such a thing would never happen at home he was terrified but I had to explain to him that traffic stops in the US can be dangerous for the cops. They are not the same thing as a traffic stop in Europe.

It is the same with the issue of guns. Europeans look at Americans as barbarians but they just do not understand the level of violence here.

I dunno… I really have a hard time condemming a European firm for selling chains to American prisons.

American society is so much more violent that to pretend to use the same standards you have in Europe is just not realistic IMHO.

There has been a recent incident about which i am trying to find more information. It seems a well known Spanish gipsy flamenco dancer was on his way from Mexico to Spain and in transit in JFK airport. For some reason the immigration people there detained him and gave him the thrid degree. I guess his looks were, well, like a gipsy, and they got suspicios this guy was wearing expensive clothes or something. his name Antonio Canales. I have never heard of him but it seems he is well known and he has performed for many famous people including president Clinton.

Well, they gave him the third degree for a few hours including hitting him and knocking out some teeth. After that, they sent him on his merry way to Spain with no further questions or charges. I understand the Spanish government has presented a complaint and the American emabassy in Spain has reported an investigation is under way.

Well, if this is the way it looks, it seems the cops got a bit out of hand. I am not saying it’s right but Europeans just do not understand that America has such a high level of violence everywhere, including the police. So they see these things and just think America may be developed economically but they are barbarians when it comes to the level of violence they endure.

I cannot see how you could have a European type police in America. I think the bad guys would make them into hamburguer the first day… and then what do you do.

As I say, I just found this item amusing and reflective of the cultural difference.