Legal form of "X"?

[Hostile_Dialect]

@Dr_Paprika

I don’t doubt that ecstasy is far safer than cocaine

I would argue that cocaine is way safer than ecstasy. The jury is still out on E and brain damage (although I don’t think it can do much more than alcohol), plus coke doesn’t generally make you feel emotional bonds that aren’t really there. Not to mention that purity is less of an issue with coke IMO/IME; E is sometimes cut with DXM, which is too heavy of a trip to be taken unintentionally, or heroin, which itself is usually loaded up with all kinds of nasty and completely unrelated chemicals. I think it’s significantly easier to overdose on ecstasy, and it’s easier to die from side effects (increased temperature etc). And a totally subjective, but IMO pretty valid, difference: I’ve never met a former ecstasy-dropper who didn’t regret doing it, while I’ve met plenty of people who’ve done loads of cocaine and see it as a light and casual bit of weekend fun.

It’s important to keep in mind that ecstasy is an analogue of methamphetamine; that’s what the “MA” in “MDMA” means. It’s not too many molecules removed from that drug.

All the purity stuff said, it’s pretty easy and legal to get testing equipment to make sure your pills are pure; there are also databases online which list the tested purity of different pills, which you can usually tell from one another by the logo on the pill (E-makers are big on that stuff). And a fairly large non-profit organization (the same that sells the testing kits) sets up testing booths at many raves. It’s not at all difficult to make sure you’re not setting yourself up for an overdose on a bunch of crazy drugs–and you don’t waste a pill doing it, you just have to scrape a tiny bit off. I’m not going to detail where you get this equipment, or which company does it, here, but if you snoop around on some of the more enlightened psychonaut sites you’ll find it.

…Or, what Mr2001 said.

@FormerMarineGuy

SIDE QUESTION: Would it be allowed in GQ to ask what the best way to take X would be? I mean, types of music, lights, tastes of food, etc. These are all things I hear people mentioning and read about on certain websites. Or would this question belong somewhere else?

I wouldn’t ask that on these boards, but I’ll try to remember to answer your questions when I get to the email; currently I’m wrapped up in some moving stuff.

samclem, big kudos and thanks to you and the rest of the mod crew for leaving this thread open.

@Mr2001

If you can find a cite, I’d be very interested. Considering the number of young people taking ADHD drugs and the popularity of E, it seems like reports of bad interactions between the two would be all over the place, but I’ve never heard of it.

Consider again that the MA in MDMA stands for methamphetamine. If you take E and Adderall or any other amphetamine, you’re taking multiple amphetamines at once. (Ritalin’s not technically in the amphetamine family but it’s basically in the same business.)

[Dr_Paprika]

I’ve personally seen cocaine cause heart attacks in four healthy people under the age of twenty, in addition to a few cases of low blood sugar, high blood pressure, kidney failure, supraventricular tachycardia and a couple stillbirths blamed on (and most probably due to) cocaine. I’ve personally never used cocaine in any form, but many addiction medicine specialists consider cocaine, crack, etc. to be much more addictive than, say, opiates since nothing else really reproduces that high. I have met quite a few users who say cocaine can be used fairly safely and that trying it once can’t cause an addiction. As a resident, I spent six weeks working in an inner city drug addiction/methadone clinic – and I do not believe either of these claims are true.

While I can’t condone the use of illegal drugs, I am not excessively concerned about patients who admit or test positive for marijuana or magic mushroom use. I’ve seen more, and more serious, side effects from coke than X in the ER. I always give advice to cocaine users to switch to less harmful drugs. No doubt YMMV and I hardly expect to get every psychonaut I see to agree with me. Not my job to judge people, but I do believe in trying to reduce potential harm.

[Ms2001]

@fetus

Consider again that the MA in MDMA stands for methamphetamine. If you take E and Adderall or any other amphetamine, you’re taking multiple amphetamines at once. (Ritalin’s not technically in the amphetamine family but it’s basically in the same business.)

Indeed, but it’s apparently not uncommon for E to contain MDA or MA in addition to MDMA, so you may be taking multiple amphetamines at once anyway. The interaction with MAOIs that KarlGauss was referring to is serotonin syndrome, I believe… IANAD, but my layman’s understanding is this: it’s basically a chain reaction between two different classes of drug which attack from two different angles to cause an excess of serotonin, with one causing a bunch of serotonin to be released and the other preventing it from being broken down, so it just piles up with nowhere to go. Multiple amphetamines don’t cause this effect because they basically all attack from the same angle; there’s only so much serotonin you can release, and it’s still being taken away as it should be. (Please correct me if I’m wrong.)

[Amaranta]

@fetus

MDMA is a unique animal because it’s both a stimulant and a hallucinogen, and even more unique because it’s an **emotional hallucinogen **more so than a visual/acoustic one.

Wow. I’ve always looked for the right way to describe E, and there it is. That’s perfect. It can be kind of fun, but it’s certainly a drug I’d never touch again.

[boytyperanma]

@Derleth

Where was the study published?

I don’t know. It may still be a study in process. He was working for Harvard Medical at Mclean Hospital.

Hear is one of the articles he was involved in.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14643939&dopt=Abstract

[Hostile_Dialect]

@Dr_Paprika

but many addiction medicine specialists consider cocaine, crack, etc. to be much more addictive than, say, opiates since nothing else really reproduces that high

That sounds utterly bizarre to me. Crack, sure, but powdered cocaine is widely considered a light drug IME, especially compared to heroin, morphine, etc. Of course, the synthetic opiates are usually taken pretty lightly by other members of my generation, but I’m more afriad of OxyContin than coke, personally, and I had enough of both up my nose back in the day.

@Dr_Paprika

I have met quite a few users who say cocaine can be used fairly safely and that trying it once can’t cause an addiction.

Don’t know the cite off the top of my head, but generally the annual surveys NIDA (or NIH or something) do about drug use in America show that of everyone who’s tried heroin, only 10% have used it in the last month. I believe powder cocaine usually hovers around 8%. Are the other 92% recovered addicts? I don’t buy it. I’ve done lots of coke and a little heroin and never felt the compulsion to do more, myself, nor do I feel I had to make any special effort to stop, and I know other people like that too. I know people who have fucked their lives up too, of course. But what’s not to believe? Working in a drug addiction clinic, almost all you saw was a subset of that 8%.

@Dr_Paprika

I’ve seen more, and more serious, side effects from coke than X in the ER

I must concede that I’ve never worked in the ER and I wouldn’t know this. I’ve been told by others that cocaine overdose is pretty gruesome. I’ve never seen it myself, but frankly it seems pretty darn hard to overdose, and it seems to me (again, drawing mostly from my own experiences) that you’d pretty much have to be an addict either (a) taking stuff from a new batch with radically different efficacy or (b) switching from snorting to injecting without adjusting your dose. Am I wrong here? I’ll concede your authority on the matter since it sounds like you’ve seen many more overdoses and addicts than I have (I’ve never seen an overdose on anything, BTW).

@Dr_Paprika

I always give advice to cocaine users to switch to less harmful drugs.

Well, sure. That I can get behind; there are healthier ways to get high if you have to get high. I’m curious, though, which drugs do you consider “less harmful” and which “more harmful”? You can email me if you don’t feel that’s appropriate for the boards.

@Mr2001

Indeed, but it’s apparently not uncommon for E to contain MDA or MA in addition to MDMA, so you may be taking multiple amphetamines at once anyway.

MDA? Are you sure? I’ve heard that stuff’s pretty rare these days. More conventionally trippy than MDMA and less ‘speedy’ and emotional IIRC, but I haven’t ever seen it or done much research on it.

Anyway, since you may be taking several stimulants at once in a given E pill, why throw more fuel on the fire with Adderall or, for that matter, recreational amphetamines? I’ve never heard of a reaction, but I wouldn’t do it.

@Mr2001

The interaction with MAOIs that KarlGauss was referring to is serotonin syndrome, I believe… IANAD, but my layman’s understanding is this: it’s basically a chain reaction between two different classes of drug which attack from two different angles to cause an excess of serotonin, with one causing a bunch of serotonin to be released and the other preventing it from being broken down, so it just piles up with nowhere to go. Multiple amphetamines don’t cause this effect because they basically all attack from the same angle; there’s only so much serotonin you can release, and it’s still being taken away as it should be. (Please correct me if I’m wrong.)

IANANeurologist, but from my research that all sounds right to me. IIUC other amphetamines affect dopamine more than serotonin anyway, though I may just be thinking of coke.

No, you’re right, it’s worse to take an MAOI with E than an amphetamine. But I wouldn’t do the latter either; how much crank can one man need, anyway?

@Amaranta

Wow. I’ve always looked for the right way to describe E, and there it is. That’s perfect. It can be kind of fun, but it’s certainly a drug I’d never touch again.

I can’t claim credit for it, I read it somewhere. Here’s an example of what I talked about earlier–while ex-coke-users I’ve met usually aren’t too regretful of it, it seems like everyone I’ve met who’s taken E much says “Man, I’d never do that stuff again.”

[WhyNot]

@fetus

I can’t claim credit for it, I read it somewhere. Here’s an example of what I talked about earlier–while ex-coke-users I’ve met usually aren’t too regretful of it, it seems like everyone I’ve met who’s taken E much says “Man, I’d never do that stuff again.”

I only took it once, years ago, and loved it unreservedly. I haven’t taken it since, mostly because I’m afraid of adulterants, and don’t have anyone in my life that I’d trust to buy it from.

But if I could know I had a clean source, I’d be all over that shit. Loved. It.

[Ms2001]

@fetus

Here’s an example of what I talked about earlier–while ex-coke-users I’ve met usually aren’t too regretful of it, it seems like everyone I’ve met who’s taken E much says “Man, I’d never do that stuff again.”

Do they explain why?

I have a few friends who’ve been taking E over the past year or so, and they’ve also done coke quite a bit, and it’s the opposite with them.