Exactly what is wrong? That non-member stores can not stop you without the “beep” (that is to say probable cause?) Or that Member stores can revoke your membership if you decline to stop?
Ordinary stores need probable cause. The beep often gives them that probable cause and thus they can detain you. Did you Bricker not say (in the second thread cited)“Reviewing the OP, one key sentence emerges, at least indofar as Virginia law is concerned:
Virginia Code § 8.01-226.9 provides, inter alia that:
The activation of an electronic article surveillance device as a result of a person exiting the premises or an area within the premises of a merchant where an electronic article surveillance device is located shall constitute probable cause for the detention of such person …
In Virginia, the merchant, his agent, or his employee may detain, in a reasonable manner, and only for such time as is necessary for an inquiry into the circumstances surrounding the activation of the device, any person who exits the store and sets off the device, becase the device’s activation, by law, constitutes probable cause.”
So- the beep gives PC, right? No PC, no right to detain, right? They can’t just do it at random, as was said in that very same thread. (Of course, it’s not always a “beep” that gives PC)
But only if the beep device is working. As you Bricker responded to my query later on in the same thread "
Originally Posted by DrDeth
Now Bricker- are you really telling us, that despite the letter of the law- that if a business had the alarm go off every time anyone went out- then a high Court couldn’t overturn the “letter of the law” in a specific case? endQuote:me
If the business had fraudulently set the alarm to go off every single time, then I suppose a court could find that the device was not an actual electronic article surveillance device within the meaning of the law.
I took your “every single time” to be hyperbole. But yes, I grant that if the device were going off every single time, then it’s not really an electronic article surveillance device.
And certainly, if a store only stopped black dudes, that’d be a serious violation of the US Const and Federal law, would it not?
So maybe my point that the Member store can revoke your membership, maybe that’s what yopu say is wrong? But wait, isn’t it **Random **that said "
In effect, Costco does this, except for the brutish thugs part. It’s an understood-in-advance condition of membership. If someone refused to show a receipt, I doubt Costco would do anything physical to restrain him (absent other probable cause to detain), but I’m confident that his membership would be cancelled…
I’m not as cooperative at certain other places, such as Home Depot. There’s no advance agreement, and not everyone is stopped. It’s personnel are more demanding and less polite. I will generally show my receipt, but I am less patient, and will leave without showing it if there are undue delays.
So exactly what info in my post is wrong?
Ah, maybe what **Random quoted me as saying "Normal retail stores really can’t stop you unless they are willing to make a citizens arrest. " which taken out of context is wrong given what the OP said. But I went on to say that the “beep” gives them considerable protection…
which part you left off. In other words, the beeping gives them Probable Cause, and with PC they then can detain you. Without PC they can’t legally detain you, now can they?