Let it go, for Christs sake!

I usually don’t get all wound up about little things like this, but I’ve seen and heard enough.

Look at http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=70305.

Danalan, I’m sure you thought you were being pretty cute. A couple of months ago I probably would have thought it was funny. Now it’s just plain old.

Gore lost. He lost in every way possible. He lost at the polls. He lost in court. He lost in public opinion.

He just plain lost. Dubya is your president now.

I don’t think I can take another four years of this shit. Enough with the sour grapes, already.

Hmm. I think that you’ve left yourself wiiiiiiide open with that one…

pan

Kabbes,

I think you may be right.

What I was referring to was the persistent moaning and whining about “Gore won the popular vote but Bush is the president”. Bush IS the president, like it or not.

Also, why is it that the Electoral College is such a big issue now? It’s been in the Constitution for 200+ years now. All of the sudden, when the election doesn’t go the way it probably should have, everyone is crying about it. That’s the system, folks. Always has been. Quit bitching about it and accept your fate.

What they should be bitching about is the complete lack of intelligence on the part of the Florida voters.

How fucking hard is it to pay attention to what you’re doing? If you’re confused, ask for directions.

Florida got what it deserved. An illiterate President for a state of illiterate voters. Poetic justice, if you ask me.

Hmm. Seems to me from this side of the pond that what you should be doing is ensuring that it doesn’t happen again. Having a look at your various electoral mechanisms, from procedures of deciding ballot papers* to the method of counting, that kind of thing.

pan

ps: Your last line is certainly amusing, I’ll give you that. But unfortunately Florida has actually given the “illiterate president” to the whole country and the world to boot.

[/quote]
*e.g. I still don’t get why you don’t have a standard type of ballot paper used in every polling booth in the country

Airman,
I’m not trying to rag on you here, but I wanted to ask about a couple of your points.

(bolding mine)
I’m very confused here. I don’t have strong opinions either way about the election, but I’m wondering- does this mean that if a particular system seems to be flawed and could possibly be fixed, we shouldn’t bother and should just roll over and ignore it? I feel exactly opposite. I don’t think that bitching will do any good, but possibly election procedures should be examined in light of the 2000 mess.

Um, what about the rest of us? Didn’t we all get the very same president?

If I’m not mistaken, that seemed to be an issue during the elections- that people who needed assistance were not able to obtain it. Also, people with visual impairments, motor control problems, mental retardation, and other disabilities have the right to vote and could easily have been confused by some of the ballots presented, in my opinion. Should they ask for help if needed? Of course. But, for example, if it appears that you are filling the form out correctly, why would you ask someone?

On this point, I heartily agree. George W. Bush is our president. If you are upset with the way the election went, go to your elected officials and persuade them to work on election reform. Otherwise, quit bitching.

Zette

I agree with that one hundred percent. I’m all for election reform. I’m just saying that given the current system, nobody has the right to complain about the results.

Yes we did. But the point I was making was that it is primarily due to the incompetence of the Florida voters. The election was won and lost in Florida. That one state ultimately was the deciding factor.

Touche. Still, were there really that many people that were disabled and such, or was it mostly due to inattentiveness? I suspect that that’s the real reason that Gore lost the election. Nobody paid attention.

Well, they’re paying now, aren’t they?

Speaking of paying…

One of the counties in Fla. (Broward?) is buying NEW voting machines!! What to do with the old ones? They will be put up for “public” auction on e-bay. You can buy a little piece of history.

Excellent question, and the very one that should be investigated so we don’t get a repeat performance.

Not to be a nitpicker, but yes, they do have the right to complain about the results. The can bitch, moan, and cry for all eternity. I personally would prefer that they instead focus their energies on some sort of reform.

Eww. This sounds way too touchy-feely for the Pit. Go felch yourself, Airman! With a crazy straw, no less!

Zette

I’d just like to remind folks that in a democracy, which is a system in which the governance is based on public discourse, bitching and moaning are a perfectly legitimate part of that discourse, and I’d probably respect these people less if they shut up than if they bitched.

Bitching and moaning aren’t constructive tools of public discourse; they’re just, well, bitching and moaning. If people wish to protest Bush’s utterly wrongheaded missile defense plans or his abandonment of clean air and water standards, that’s different. But the petty sniping about the election changes nothing and makes Democrats look like bad sports. Mind you, the Republican smear campaign against the Clintons for the past eight years does not leave the Right with any moral high ground.

Hey, I’m all for public discourse. However, this long ago ceased being a reasonable topic of discussion. It has degenerated into a never ending stream of potshots from disenchanted people.

We can have a reasonable discussion without the snide remarks and wise ass comments. The topic is:

"What can we do to keep this from happening again?".

It is NOT “Bush isn’t the “real” president”.

He is the real president. End of story. Full stop. Period.

If you can’t accept that and address the real issues, shut the fuck up.

And that’s the crux of my problem. No one wants to discuss that. They just keep going with the bullshit. And I’m tired of it.

Oh, and goboy, I’m an independent. I always hold the moral high ground. :wink:

On the other hand, just bitching about things does little do advance one’s position or convert anyone to one’s set of beliefs; rather, it is designed to pester and annoy those who feel differently.

Discuss with me why you think Bush’s latest plan is untenable or misguided, and you may convince me; or, perhaps (though less likely), you might hear the other side of the argument and change your mind. Call Bush a pretender who gained his office in a coup d’etat and talk about how democracy is dead in this country, and I doubt I’ll ever pay attention to anything else you say. But you’ll be able to surround yourself with plenty of people who reverberate your whine and thus help convince you of your own righteousness.

Personally, I’d rather be respected than popular.

uh, did you read your two posts, airman?

not like i care who won that election, they both sucked, though i am proud to say i voted for “not Bush”

My statements were made in the context of the Electoral College. Gore won the popular vote, sure, but he didn’t win the electoral vote, which is far more important.

Gore carried California by a large margin. So what? Does that mean that the smaller states should be disenfranchised by the larger states?

That is what the Electoral College is all about. It’s a progressive way of balancing the larger, more powerful states with the smaller ones.

(soapbox)

One man, one vote does not work in this country. The smaller, more conservative states would be immediately placed in a disadvantageous situation. The larger, more progressive states would be in a position to assert their will.

Hell, look right here in Pennsylvania, where I live. Bush won virtually everywhere. Just not in Pittsburgh or Philadelphia. He ended up losing the state. The voters in my area were disenfranchised right there.

And that’s why we need to have some meaningful voter reforms. What, you don’t like the Electoral College? Come up with a better idea.

Just don’t piss and moan when your candidate loses. Don’t blame the system. Blame yourselves.

(/end soapbox)

But that’s hardly germane to my point. I’m just tired of the sore losers, the constant reminders of their loss, and their inability to cope with it. That’s my point.

how do you feel about sore winners?[sup]tm[/sup]

Feh. Coming out on the losing end of a democratic election is NOT the same thing as being disenfranchised, Doors. The Republican voters in rural Pennsylvania voted and lost, just like the Democratic voters in Texas. Neither group was “disenfranchised” by any stretch of the imagination. It is at least arguable that voters in Florida were disenfranchised.

At least the “sore winners” go on with their lives instead of saying “coulda, woulda, shoulda” a full 5 months after the election is over.

Oh, and while I’m thinking (a rare thing, I assure you), you might want to look at this thread: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=70155.

It’s similar in import, if not in content.

Airman, with all due respect, I’d suggest that the link provided demonstrates a sore winner not able to ‘let go and live their life’ several months later. his guy was declared the winner in the area that he’s carping about, and he’s still looking for conspiracies to ‘prevent’ a Bush win. Sheesh.

And I see that both Doors and Milossarian have both chosen to “go on with their lives” in the last two days by posting lengthy pit rants about inconsequential references to last year’s election. Milo freaked out over nothing more than a user name. At least you, Doors, have chosen to freak out over a post that was all of one sentence long.

Move along, indeed. :rolleyes: