Let me tell you about a teacher.

The BBQ Pit
1

Last year, I had a wonderful AP European history teacher. History is notoriously a dull subject, but Mr. M made it a class that all of his students loved. I hated school last year, but history was the one class that I always looked forward to. I learned so much, and really enjoyed doing so. He made the subject come to life. In the classroom and out of it, he was always there for his students whenever they needed help.

Now here’s the part that just doesn’t feel like it fits. Mr. M was arrested Friday. On three counts of custodial indecency with a minor. He allegedly committed statutory rape with a student! A seventeen-year-old girl. I don’t even know what to think. I mean, normally when I hear these kinds of things, I think that there must have been something different, something off about the person…but there wasn’t here. I don’t even know what to believe. I just can’t bring myself to believe that Mr. M really did what they’re accusing him of, but our principal said that there’s strong evidence. Also, he has apparently admitted it (this was heard from a parent who heard it from our principal…I would assume it’s true, knowing the source, but just bear that in mind.) Just seeing his picture on the news, like some criminal, almost makes me cry- I always thought that if he ever was on the news, it would be for some amazing recognition for his teaching.

Right now, I don’t even know what I’m upset about. I’m upset with the media, because they’re always after nothing but the story. I’m upset with the kids at my school, who are taking the story and coming up with rumor after terrible rumor. I’m upset with Mr. M, if he did do this, for doing it. I’m even a little upset with myself, for not being able to see that this could happen. I mean, what does that say about the accuracy of my judgment of people?

I just don’t even know what to think. And today’s my birthday- What a birthday gift, finding out that one of your favorite teachers ever has been arrested. I’m just in shock. :frowning:

2

monica, that’s terrible; I’m sorry to hear that.

Daniel

3

monica:

There is no question that this teacher’s conduct, if true, was highly inappropriate. But I’m not so sure I’d call him a monster. Sexual relationships between adult men and seventeen-year-olds are legal in some states; in others, this would be forbidden only because of the custodial relationship - teacher to student - that existed. The theory, of course, is that there is an inherently unequal and potentially coercive aspect to the relationship … but it’s light-years from actual, forceful threats or violence accompanied by rape.

Even the real monsters that walk among us are not visible to the naked eye. The pedophiles that gain trust before molesting children are able to continue precisely because no one sees anythign wrong with them. How much tougher is it, then, to “see wrong” in a case like this, where the wrong is much less severe than in those cases?

Make no mistake: the teacher did a foolish and wrong thing, if these allegations are true. But to sit there and think that you should have somehow seen this ahead of time is madness.

  • Rick
4

Excellent response, Bricker!!!

5

Bricker, let me thank you as well, for saying most of what I wanted to say.

Monica, don’t let your teacher’s misconduct in this case blind you to the real benefits you’d had from this teacher. Like Bricker says, I’m not going to tell you that what he did was proper, or smart, but unless it was a coerced relationship, it’s not what I’d call monstrous, either.

Congratulations, you’re learning that people can be admirable in many respects and still do something that makes you want to bitchslap 'em.

Not my favorite lesson, but a needed one all the same.

6

My cousin married her typing teacher. This sort of thing happens all the time. Many times, these relationships are only rape in the eyes of the law. I think there’s a real problem with the balance of power, and I think your teacher made a mistake in that regard, but as Bricker said, many states allow relationships of that age difference. Don’t be too hard on him, and don’t beat yourself up for not seeing what was happening.

7

If the 17 year old was not one of his students I may look at it very differently. I know someone who was charged with the Australian equivalent of statutory rape (carnal knowledge) because he was over the age of consent and the girl wasn’t (although both were teens). They are still together 27+ years later, along with the kids.

8

It’s perfectly legal to have sex with a 17 year old (or a 16 year old for that matter) where I live in Ireland, so I don’t think you should worry about him being evil et cetera. However, I’d have to second Bricker and say that it certainly wasn’t a smart thing to do.

Finally if he was arrested, it obviously isn’t legal where he lives, whether he was aware of this or not. Ignorantia legis neminen excusat - Ignorance of the law excuses nobody.

9

Add my thanks to Bricker. I tried formulating my thoughts several times, but couldn’t get it quite right – couldn’t put it together without sounding either like I was excusing his activities or condemning him to Hell for them – and so I just made the short post. Bricker said it more eloquently than I could have.

Daniel

10

I understand how you can be upset. A similar thing happened to me in high school.

My junior year English teacher, Mr. A, was amazing. He completely turned me around academically. He made learning fun and encouraged all of the kids to do their best and be creative. Even my mother adored him to pieces.

At the time he was also having an affair with one of his students (my 16 year old friend G). I knew it was happening, was kind of disgusted (especially since he was married with a child) and, honestly, a little jealous.

A few years after high school I received a court order to give a deposition to talk about the affair for the statutory rape trial. It was obviously a very complicated situation (don’t have time to type it all out) but essentially the student won a boatload of cash and Mr. A lost his teaching license and went to jail for 9 months.

The worst part was that it was in all the newspapers and my mother, who adored Mr. A so much, was devastated that 1) I was somehow involved, 2) I knew about the affair and didn’t tell her, 3) a teacher who did so much good was capable of such stupidity.

When I remember him, I choose to remember the things he taught me in the classroom and the lessons I’ve learned from his behavior outside the classroom. I think OtakuLoki said it best: “don’t let your teacher’s misconduct in this case blind you to the real benefits you’d had from this teacher”.

11

To add to bricker’s comments:

I had to take sexual abuse training as a requirement for working with youth in my church. We were told that there were two types of child abusers. The first are the most notorious, demonized and hated, and they are pedophiles. They seek out children with whom they receive sexual satisfaction, at the expense of the child. they are sexually and emotionally immature, and can’t or have a very hard time having age appropriate relationships. A second type of abuser may suffer from hebephilia, or attraction to sexually mature, but still underage people. There may even be a third type (perhaps not relevant in this case) of abuser who is repressed sexually, and seeks relief in a presumably hidden relationship to avoid being punished for a more open sexual relationship.

I know nothing about the case described, so I’m going on a few assumptions here. Your teacher may actually not be a pedophile, and may be a decent person who made several bad decisions that led to a worse situation. He may not have the same personality flaws as a pedophile, but may have made bad decisions due to a character flaw (inability to control impulse, little or no foresight into consequences of actions or words, etc.). A character flaw can be very specific, and not be visible except in specific situations. He may well have been very sincere in his desire to teach, and that should not necessarily be called into question. Most of us have some flaw that would be shocking to the world, and yet we are still able to contribute significant things to it.

In any case, he should be held responsible for his actions and his victim helped through her feelings. And hopefully, you will be able to resolve your feelings as well.

Vald/Igor

12

My high school Geography teacher was a cool guy. I can’t say he was my favourite, but he was up there for sure. Just like in your case, he made the course “come alive”. It wasn’t such a hassle to learn. We scored consistently higher than the other class, taught by the other teacher. This guy was also a gym teacher. He taught the guys. The girls had a female teacher. But, if they needed a sub, the gym teachers were interchangeable.

Years later, I find out this guy was arrested for sexually abusing/sodomizing at least 2 boys on his soccer team.

In college, my bowling teacher was a great guy. (Don’t ask ~ a gym course was compulsory so I figured I’d get out of sweating by bowling). I loved this guy! The kind of teacher everyone thought was really cool and we could be ourselves with. He even pretended not to notice me smoking in gym class! (You gotta love it).

Long story short, same thing. Arrested and convicted of sexually abusing some boys on a municipal soccer team.

It’s definitely a hard thing to swallow. It’s hard to imagine you were in the same ROOM as them, let alone liked them a lot. It took me a while to deal with it. Basically I just compartmentalized it. They were cool with me, in my life. They were animals, in someone else’s. To this day, I almost see each of them as two separate people. Probably just a coping mechanism.

In your case, I think it’s a bit different. She was 17. I remember myself at that age. I definitely wasn’t naive. Had I been in the same situation, I would have known what I was doing. If anything, I would have felt like I was in a position of authority in the relationship, knowing that one squeak out of me and it was game over for him.

Here in Canada, the age of consent is 14 (I believe), only if the accused “is neither in a position of trust or authority towards the complainant nor is a person with whom the complainant is in a relationship of dependency”. At the end of the day, I think the only problem here is that he was her teacher. I certainly wouldn’t call it rape.

And btw, Happy Birthday!

13

[QUOTE=monica]
Last year, I had a wonderful AP European history teacher. History is notoriously a dull subject, but Mr. M made it a class that all of his students loved. I hated school last year, but history was the one class that I always looked forward to. I learned so much, and really enjoyed doing so. He made the subject come to life. In the classroom and out of it, he was always there for his students whenever they needed help.
<snip>
QUOTE]

Question: Where are you located? (generally).

Because I, in high school, had a wonderful history teacher. Who was Mr. M. Who taught me to enhoy History. Who made the subject come to life. Who was always there for everyone.

Please tell me.

14

**monica[/B, I can see why you would be upset, but I think that it’s important to note (as others have) that his shortcomings/personality flaws/creepiness/stupidity/etc. don’t necessarily cancel out the fact that the man can teach & that he made the subject fun.

As a soon-to-be teacher, I think it’s rather interesting that those of us who take up the profession are seen as teachers in both our professional & our private lives. That is, much of the public thinks we’re in teacher-mode 24/7 - that we carry our classroom personas into other areas of our lives.

Well, some of us are exactly the same both inside & outside the classroom, but I daresay that a good chunk of us are more complex. We’re performers, in a sense; we show the bits of ourselves that are relevant to what’s going on in our classrooms, but we also put a wall in front of what’s not relevant in order to maintain the classroom & promote learning.

What I’m attempting to say is this; teachers are not flawless, but those flaws that don’t affect the quality of learning need to be separated from those that do.

15

I think the part that bothers me the most isn’t the fact that he supposedly slept with a minor, but that she was a student of his. Elenia, I’m in Virginia Beach, VA.

16

One thing a post-rape trauma book I read years ago said is that you have a right to not be assaulted, etc. IOW, it’s not your fault if you didn’t see it coming.

Same goes here. Your character judgment is just fine.

And I want to echo what Cosmopolitan said. I am a teacher, and it’s definitely a performance. My teaching persona is not me irl. I can convince students of anything I want. This is powerful. Practically an aphrodisiac.

Teaching is a hard profession with long hours and lots of isolation, often attracting people who are in reality introverts but have this outlit into wacko dynamism when they are in front of a group.

It isn’t hard at all to take advantage of the adoration and use that student relationship to fulfill real life relational needs. Some of these kids think you walk on air. Talk about an ego high. You start by confiding personal stuff in the student, and it goes from there.

I know more colleagues in college teaching that have fully crossed the line into moral turpitude (what it’s called in the contract)t than I would have expected, and I was subject to it as a college student on different levels at least three times.

So, well, the fact he was a really great teacher doesn’t surprise me. That dynamism is a powerful thing. Honestly, you have to talk yourself down from the high, when these kids are adoring you and all.

17

Monica

Being upset makes a lot of sense.

There is an inherent power relationship between teacher-student, doctor-patient, lawyer-client, etc.

No matter how anyone tries to set it up differently, it’s there.

It’s incumbent upon the person with superior power (the teacher) to set the boundaries.

Students often think a teacher is their friend, but if they looked closely at the relationship, there is no friendship there. They don’t go out with them, don’t give their home number, don’t talk about their personal problems like the students do (except in front of the whole class), etc. It’s the teacher’s responsibility to set the boundaries, and to not expect the students to have the wisdom or maturity to know that these boundaries are there. It’s the teacher’s responsibility to see the trauma coming.

Nothing hacks me off more than when colleagues tell me that they are pissed off that an affair didn’t go well because the student expectations were skewed.

18

This is getting rather personal…it turns out that the girl is someone who used to be a really good friend of mine. We haven’t really been able to keep in contact regularly this year, but I still care about my friend. I had no idea until now what was going on. The worst part is, Mr. M was absolutely beloved to his students- so much so that they can’t manage to blame him in the least. Instead, they’re blaming the girl. They hate her. I don’t think she’s ever going to be able to come back to our school.

19

I wish I could say that I were surprised to hear that the backlash is focusing on her. I’m glad to hear you’re avoiding that reaction. I suspect your friend needs friends more than ever, now.

I’ll admit, I have a couple of questions which you may ignore if you don’t care to answer: Is Mr. M married, and how old is he? Just wondering…

20

People, especially students, can forget that their teachers are humans, with all the frailities that attend. If M wasn’t married, or if he was and it was not happy, and he was surrounded by nubile females who constantly tell him how great he is and how much he’s helped them … it’s not hard to imagine how he ends up doing something he never intended to.

And the danger is even greater if he is a teacher that is caring and involved. The unfeeling pricks are never going to have that problem.