Let there be light....

Great Debates
81

[QUOTE=mswas]
Revenant Threshold :rolleyes: Given that I can’t possibly know what every person believes, or means when they are saying ‘light’, I think it’s a fair assumption that lightwait means energy in general, or the knowledge/experience thereof, based upon the context of the OP
[/QUOTE]
You probably should have just said “lightwait” or “the OP” or “this particular person”, instead of the entire set of “religious people”. As you yourself point out - that would be deception. But I accept that you just made a mistake.

As to the OP - You claim to know what is certain. You consider all other’s postings drivel. You will not debate. You speak, not in terms of friendly conversation, but in terms of statements and insults. We are prepared to debate - hoping not only that you’ll listen to us, but also showing willingness to listen on our part. Despite your claims, which make me think you haven’t even read this thread, it is generally us who have indicated possibilities, theories, and ideas, whilst you have brought in definites, facts, knowing.

And we’re the vain ones? You don’t seek to share. I honestly believe you couldn’t give a crap about the salvation of anyone else here. You just want to boast.

82

[QUOTE=lightwait]
Read—One, Two, Three…Infinity (1947) by George Gamow and see what he said about the optical horizon.

I care not what mechanism brought forth the universe, because I do not know. Moreover, there is not a person or group of persons on this planet that can completely describe the mechanism.

I personally believe the mechanism was/is a “giving” entity/force. I know that gravity can be a giving force—I choose not to use the term “pushing gravity.”

I will not debate any issue with any of you. I will give my understandings, but, I will not engage in the drivel that has been presented here.

You may say to me, “Why do you come to these boards?”—I come here because, quite simply, I want others to understand my thoughts—whether accepted or rejected. I would prefer though, that you handle yourselves in a more comely fashion. Whatever you do is fine with me—I will not debate. Debate, in my mind, can only lead us to a place of vanity—none of us can prove, without doubt, anything. I personally would rather look toward the betterment of man than a “big-bang” that did or did not happen. Been there, done that—vanity!

I believe in physics and science as a process to bring humanity to a place of dominion on this planet. I see the gifts the physics communities have given mankind. I see man, through science, is living longer and safer and healthier—save for our need to use bombs to get anothers attention.

I do not just believe in God—I know God. I see the workings of God on this planet. (The greek word for the “workings” of God, in the Bible is energia." I know the Bible is the impetus, because of the variables brought forth in it, for us to study the heavens. Because of the Bible and the concept of God we have been enabled to come out of the caves we were in. Because of God, I have been given to know love and I know that love does not carry a bomb in its hand—love gives and will devise ways to bring life and light to those who live in the distruction of darkness and the unfounded disaproval of anothers thoughts.

Blessings
[/QUOTE]

I am one that wishes to understand your thoughts. I have seen the light also. Can you tell me more about yourself when the light began.

83

[QUOTE=mswas]
No, because there is no more star. So that point is not between me and the star. The star no longer exists, that last bit of light that is making its way to me is the remainder of its existence.

There might be a point between me and where that star used to be that has no light.
[/QUOTE]
So… you’re interacting with something that doesn’t exist?

Okay then, what about the sun? It exists. But what happens at night, when it’s on the opposite side of the planet? You can still experience its light, reflected by the moon, yet there are points directly between you and the sun where its light does not exist!

84

[QUOTE=mswas]
That isn’t quite what I was referring to. What I was referring to works in a finite universe as well. I was talking about how particles interact with other particles, that there is no point of seperation between them, no line of demarcation where energy is not flowing. For instance, if I can see a star, then I am interacting with its light, in a physical way. Therefore if it is constantly putting out light then there is no point in between myself and it where light from it does not exist.

[/QUOTE]

Say the star is 15 l.y. away, and it has gone nova 10 years ago. The light you see is fifteen years old. You’ll see the light for another five years, and then nothing. So, at present, the light does not exist for 2/3 of the distance between you and it. You can’t say anything about what is happening on the path until light from the star reaches you. Plus, the number of photons reaching you from the star depends on the distance, based on the inverse square law, down until you would have to gather photons for a long time to see any at all.

I don’t quite understand which particles you are referring to. Objects interact through gravity and through the exchange of photons. There is definitely separation between objects and even particles.

85

I for one would like to hear more. I think some here are a little too quick to label someone a liar.

86

[QUOTE=mswas]
Preach the good word, hopefully you’ll get through eventually. How many converts do you have so far?
[/QUOTE]
I have no idea, nor do I care.

87

lightwait You pattern of coming to Jesus is pretty typical, though details are usually different. First you walk with Jesus, Jesus protects you. Then Jesus leaves, and you are left alone, this seems to have to happen for you to receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

I don’t doubt any of your conversion story, I do question some things in your OP as unscriptural, but that does not change the grace that God has given you.

We are called to be the body of Christ, we are His Church - yes even here in cyberspace when believers are gathered we are His church. There are quite a few devote followers of Christ here as well as some on the fence, some searching for the truth, some not interested at this time and I strongly suspect some strongly under the influence of the enemy.

We are not called out to be total in ourselves, but only a part of the body. As such we are made to interact with each other. You seem to have the spiritual gift of evangelism which comes from the word angle and means messenger. That is a great gift and I thank God that you have it. There are other spiritual gifts of interpretation of scriptures, wisdom, knowledge, prophecy, discernment of the spirits, and many others. Very few people get all They are meant to be used together in His church, I have found that interaction with other believers usually is very positive to one’s Christian walk.

88

[QUOTE=lightwait]
I believe that through his son Jesus, the light of the world, our compassionate God is graciously extending his gift of eternal salvation to all-without cost.
[/quote]

That’s not a bad deal, but I’m holding out for the free air freshener.

It’s interesting to see the differences between religions, though. Eris spoke to me in a bowling alley a few months ago and I haven’t posted two words about it until now; and meanwhile where you are writing these lengthy missives to an audience you know is almost completely disinterested.

89

[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
You probably should have just said “lightwait” or “the OP” or “this particular person”, instead of the entire set of “religious people”. As you yourself point out - that would be deception. But I accept that you just made a mistake.

As to the OP - You claim to know what is certain. You consider all other’s postings drivel. You will not debate. You speak, not in terms of friendly conversation, but in terms of statements and insults. We are prepared to debate - hoping not only that you’ll listen to us, but also showing willingness to listen on our part. Despite your claims, which make me think you haven’t even read this thread, it is generally us who have indicated possibilities, theories, and ideas, whilst you have brought in definites, facts, knowing.

And we’re the vain ones? You don’t seek to share. I honestly believe you couldn’t give a crap about the salvation of anyone else here. You just want to boast.
[/QUOTE]

Boast? I state my opinion. I do not see a whole lot of point in the empty humility of pointing out that my words are my opinion every time I type something. It just seems like a pointless waste of time.

I point out truisms a lot of the time. It’s not about salvation, no. I am not seeking your salvation. I am no more condescending than you are, and far less condescending than some of the people I end up arguing with. However, it’s hard to have anything but contempt for people who find it necessary to berate and harangue people for sharing their religious convictions day after day.

There are people on this board who are blithering idiots, who fancy themselves intelligent, but cannot wrap their mind around the notion of subjective metaphorical language. With their shouts of ‘prove that your experience means what you think it means.’, they are not getting it and are often quite rude and mean about it.

There is nothing I have posted in this thread that is even half as rude as most of the responses to the OP.

90

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
I have no idea, nor do I care.
[/QUOTE]

Seems a rather hollow existance that one would proselytize so much, and yet not care about the outcome. I do not spend so much time on any given idea if I do not care.

91

[QUOTE=Terrifel]
So… you’re interacting with something that doesn’t exist?

Okay then, what about the sun? It exists. But what happens at night, when it’s on the opposite side of the planet? You can still experience its light, reflected by the moon, yet there are points directly between you and the sun where its light does not exist!
[/QUOTE]

The energy exchange is mediated, but there is still constant energy flow between you and the object you are interacting with. I interact with the sunlight not just by reflection of the moon, but by reflection of other planets, or storage within photosynthetic structures, by the heat contained in the stones that I walk upon. There has never been any point where I have been without the Sun’s influence. I am interacting with it as my planet orbits it.

Voyager No, there is no empty space in between me and the star in your scenario because the star is no longer there, so the light travelling to me, and the intervening space where the light no longer travels is not between me and the star, because there is no star there any longer. That being said, there is still energy flowing between other bodies. There are certainly seperations between particles and photons in a categorical sense, but the energy fields between them are still interacting with one another across the space that we deem to be between their edges.

92

[QUOTE=Marley23]
That’s not a bad deal, but I’m holding out for the free air freshener.

It’s interesting to see the differences between religions, though. Eris spoke to me in a bowling alley a few months ago and I haven’t posted two words about it until now; and meanwhile where you are writing these lengthy missives to an audience you know is almost completely disinterested.
[/QUOTE]

Hail Dis.

93

mswas, re-read. The start of the second block - “As to the OP”. I was talking about** lightwait**, not you. Only the first part was addressed to you, or at least that was the idea.

94

[QUOTE=Revenant Threshold]
mswas, re-read. The start of the second block - “As to the OP”. I was talking about** lightwait**, not you. Only the first part was addressed to you, or at least that was the idea.
[/QUOTE]

Why yes you did. I apologize.

95

[QUOTE=Der Trihs]
I have no idea, nor do I care.
[/QUOTE]

If you don’t care why do spend so much time attempting to cast dispersions upon religion and those who believe? I can only hope someday you’ll find peace. I hope it will be the peace I know. If not, at least peace.

96

[QUOTE=mswas]
The energy exchange is mediated, but there is still constant energy flow between you and the object you are interacting with. I interact with the sunlight not just by reflection of the moon, but by reflection of other planets, or storage within photosynthetic structures, by the heat contained in the stones that I walk upon. There has never been any point where I have been without the Sun’s influence. I am interacting with it as my planet orbits it.

[/quote]

We’re close to the sun. We’re affected by the tides among other things.

A photon from a star a few billion light years away might hit us once in a lifetime, if then. Exactly which non-gravitational fields don’t involve photons or bigger particles, like neutrinos, for energy transfer? And then there is matter on the other side of the event horizon that doesn’t affect us at all, even in principle.

97

Maybe it’s just the beer, but this thread struck a twang in me. Peace be with all, and let’s seek out Truth together as a warm and welcoming internet community.

98

[QUOTE=Autolycus]
Maybe it’s just the beer, but this thread struck a twang in me. Peace be with all, and let’s seek out Truth together as a warm and welcoming internet community.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, that would be nice, and like ripples on the pond spread to the furthest corners of the universe.

99

[QUOTE=hotflungwok]

[Quote=tomndebb]
GD is the official repository for witnessing on the SDMB–a rule I assure you I had no part in promulgating.
[/quote]
Um, why? Wouldn’t this fit better in My Humble Opinion? Except for the humble part, it fits perfectly.
[/QUOTE]
I was not part of the staff at that time, so I do not know the rationale behind the decision, but I would guess that it is because even when the witnesser has no intention of arguing or defending the witness statement, there are always more than a handful of Dopers willing to challenge it and a similar number (or, at least, volume), of Dopers willing to challenge the challengers.

100

[QUOTE=Sapo]
You say it like it is a bad thing. :wink:

As for the return of the OP, I have never felt it more appropriate to say:

TLDR
[/QUOTE]
I’ve never posted that to an OP, yet I was just about to do the exact same thing!