Let's gripe about social inequality between the sexes

The BBQ Pit
161

[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog]
I’ve not checked all four pages of this thread, but…

What’s up with women cow-orkers prodding me in the guts and saying, “You’re getting fat!”?

If I did that to them, I’d have all manner of PC hell rained down upon me from a great height by the HR dept (and potentially even the cops).

I’m not uptight about this. I am a fat bastard, and I laugh it off.

But on an intellectual level, it’s annoying that it’s somehow my role to laugh it off, but it wouldn’t be were the situation reversed.
[/QUOTE]

Someone who tried that with me would get the response “And you’re a moron. But I can diet.”

Honestly, people amaze me.

162

Thanks tdn and Rube E.

The Churchillian comeback quip did cross my mind, but then I’m not that rude, which is precisely why I didn’t make an issue of it. Maybe I should have. I don’t know. But I’m pretty sure they genuinely believed they were safely inside any boundaries and were being jokey and friendly. And I just decided to be glad I’m not as utterly bloody clueless as them (I’m just clueless enough).

163

How about the thread about the male prom queen to show some horrid behavior with regard to inequalities about the sexes? I imagine the reaction would be quite different if a female student had been elected prom king?

164

[QUOTE=tdn]
There was the one time I passed Heather in the hallway, and said. “Wow! You look GREAT!” I didn’t think about it, it just slipped out. She’s great looking anyway, but she was wearing a very sexy red dress more suited to a formal night out than an office.
[/QUOTE]
…and, of course, you opened yourself up for a hostile workplace complaint on that one…

165

[QUOTE=TheLoadedDog]
What’s up with women cow-orkers prodding me in the guts and saying, “You’re getting fat!”?
[/QUOTE]

Yes! That happened to me a few months ago and I didn’t have any kind of comeback. I just sat there so dumbfounded I didn’t say anything, which I think is what made her instantly apologize.

166

[QUOTE=Belrix]
…and, of course, you opened yourself up for a hostile workplace complaint on that one…
[/QUOTE]

Possibly, but I know her well enough that I knew she’d take it as the compliment intended. She’s cool that way.

Unlike a young lady I worked with years ago. She was part time, and a student at the time. One of her courses was Studies in Women’s Rights, or something like that. I totally kept my distance from that.

How many Harvard girls does it take to change a lightbulb?

That’s Radcliffe, that’s women, and that’s not funny.

167

[QUOTE=Cat Fight]
While that particularly story does sound especially twisted and I hate the double standard, I’ve stepped in several times when a guy was abusing his wife/girlfriend in public (holding keys up to her face, twisting her arm and yelling, etc.) when it was clear that not a fucking soul was going to stop him. Once the guy and girl couldn’t have been mor ethan 15. It still kills me that I didn’t make her call a friend or walk her home.
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In all fairness, the way the apartments were arranged, the neighbor couldn’t have seen the flying toy-swing part. I have to imagine if I suddenly came around a corner, and saw a petite female, face full of tears, ineffectively punching a larger male with a more calm look on his face, it might occur to me that getting the female to stop punching the male would be nice, but making sure the male didn’t take a swing at the female would be more important given the relative damage-dealing capability. I would also be suspicious that although I was only seeing female-on-male violence at the moment, I don’t know what had happened the moment before, and if I noticed the blood on the back of the head of the male, that would just make me more certain I missed something.

So while the neighbor could have been a little more politically correct about it, I can’t deny that making sure the male wasn’t harming the female (given the relative builds, not necessarily the genders) was priority number one.

168

[QUOTE=tdn]
<snip>How many Harvard girls does it take to change a lightbulb?

That’s Radcliffe, that’s women, and that’s not funny.

[/QUOTE]

My husband, who had his fill of rabid, rude feminists at university, really enjoyed your joke (as did I).

169

Perhaps the topic is played out, but I definitely have experienced the double standard in one office. I got chewed out and threatened with firing for such things as leaning back too far in my chair and not wearing clothes that were sufficiently “nice.” Meanwhile the female employees were showing up in shorts and T-shirts, while putting their bare feet on their desks.

170

[QUOTE=phouka]

So, I do my best never to take it for granted but to treat it as a thoughtful gift, and I also do my best to return the favor either with a consideration of my own or by giving them the opportunity to stare down my cleavage.
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On behalf of several guys at my work station, who I just read this to, and who’ve all been in this situation; we’re much obliged, and we appreciate it. :stuck_out_tongue:

171

The only time I have ever had any desire to be a guy is when I am trying to get a point across and being obviously ignored because I don’t do that whole stupid flirty thing. Drives me up the fucking wall. And mentioned upthread, when some guy walks up and says the exact same goddamn thing and suddenly it’s the Greatest Idea Ever.

I decided a long time ago I’d rather have dignity than attention. I think it’s sad that for whatever reason I felt I had to choose.

My other peeve, which is not really something I think is any particular person’s (or gender’s) fault, is just the whole society thing. When I got married, it was a big fucking thing, because I had to figure out what that meant. For the longest time I was terrified I was going to lose my identity and have to live up to some arbitrary standard of perfect wife and mother. I don’t even want to BE a mother yet. I don’t LIKE babies. I didn’t want to have to choose between a family and a career. I want to explore the world.

Eventually I figured out that I can do whatever the hell I feel like and still have a wonderful marriage, but that’s not really the norm judging from some of the other relationships I have seen. People acted like I was fucking crazy to leave the country without my husband, because god fucking forbid I have career goals and interests of my own.

These threads always make me so sad and confused. There are so many people here who seem to feel like victims of the opposite gender, everything’s so unfair from all perspectives. Maybe it’s true that being a man is unfair in a way that being a woman is not, and vice-versa. I just worry that people get so caught up in their own sense of victimhood that they close their minds to understanding the other side of the story.

Listening to what the men have had to say in this thread has definitely fought some of my ignorance on this matter. I cannot fathom being unable to touch a child for fear of being accused of molestation–children are constantly thrust into my hands whether I want them there or not. I don’t think I would be able to deal with that, it sounds just awful.

And I am not a fan of women-on-male violence used as humor. Hell, there’s a scene in Ratatouille where the pretty woman chef is so outraged at Alfredo Linguini that she raises her hand to strike him (although, it’s not supposed to be a funny scene.) I always cringe in that scene, and was so relieved when she just walked away, because I would have lost complete and total respect for her character.

Ditto on the idiot-husband stereotype. I mean, stereotypes in general are just dumb. Those shows bother me because the women are horrible bitches. I especially hate the ‘‘woman can do anything she wants because she is menstruating’’ meme that shows up in sitcoms. I remember an episode of Wings where Helen drove her car into the side of Joe’s office. Fucking hilarious.

Ya know what? My Mom once deliberately smashed her car into the side of my stepfather’s business. It wasn’t fucking funny. Her crazy violent hormonal shit was NEVER funny. And now that I have my own crazy hormonal thing going, I’ve learned that it is actually possible for a female to control her behavior and not be a violent rampaging lunatic, no matter how much she feels like being one. To treat women as if they cannot be responsible for their actions in this way is insulting to women and unfair to men.

Fuck stereotypes anyways. In my household, my husband and I cook separately, he almost always does the dishes, he has to nag me to clean up and I always fix broken things. If there’s ever a point in our lives when we’re homeowners, the one ‘‘out in the woodshop’’ sure as hell won’t be him. :slight_smile:

172

[QUOTE=olivesmarch4th]
The only time I have ever had any desire to be a guy is when I am trying to get a point across and being obviously ignored because I don’t do that whole stupid flirty thing.
[/QUOTE]

That’s the only time you’ve ever wanted to be a guy? I guess you’ve never had to parachute piss in a filthy bathroom, or wait in line for one for that matter. :wink:

173

Here’s one: Men get served quicker in coffee-shops.

We provide evidence from a field study of wait times in Boston-area coffee shops that suggests that female customers wait an **average of 20 seconds longer ** for their orders than do male customers even when controlling for gender differences in orders. We find that this differential in wait times is inverse to the proportion of employees who are female and directly related to how busy the coffee shop is at the time of the order.

Apparently when servers are all male, women wait almost a minute longer than men. Is this because:

a) Male servers see themselves as allies of the other men?
b) Male servers want to get the other men out of the shop so they can flirt with the women?
c) Male servers don’t think women’s time is as valuable?

174

[QUOTE=amrussell]
a) Male servers see themselves as allies of the other men?
b) Male servers want to get the other men out of the shop so they can flirt with the women?
c) Male servers don’t think women’s time is as valuable?
[/QUOTE]

I’m going to go with secret choice d:

A coincidence gussied up as a “research study.”

175

[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
I’m going to go with secret choice d:

A coincidence gussied up as a “research study.”
[/QUOTE]

Unless provided further evidence, I would second this. For example, what’s the ratio? How large is the sample and what is each person ordering? If women are more likely to order espresso drinks while men are more likely to order a simple cup of coffee, it makes sense that the women would, on average, wait longer since it takes quite a bit longer to make an espresso drink than it does to pour coffee into a cup.

176

[QUOTE=overlyverbose]
Unless provided further evidence, I would second this. For example, what’s the ratio? How large is the sample and what is each person ordering? If women are more likely to order espresso drinks while men are more likely to order a simple cup of coffee, it makes sense that the women would, on average, wait longer since it takes quite a bit longer to make an espresso drink than it does to pour coffee into a cup.
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They control for type of drink, and have 295 observations - more than enough to be statistically significant.

177

[QUOTE=Algher]
They control for type of drink, and have 295 observations - more than enough to be statistically significant.
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Unless they miked the staff, they couldn’t possibly control for the type of drink as they would have no idea what kind of special orders people may be making that wouldn’t be audible from a nearby table.

Sure, you can see what the end result is, but you’d have no way of knowing if that latte was straight off the menu or if it required extra prep time.

178

[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
Unless they miked the staff, they couldn’t possibly control for the type of drink as they would have no idea what kind of special orders people may be making that wouldn’t be audible from a nearby table.

Sure, you can see what the end result is, but you’d have no way of knowing if that latte was straight off the menu or if it required extra prep time.
[/QUOTE]

Read the article - they recorded the drinks in 277 circumstances, and then coded as either fancy or not. They also admit that their crude order flagging is not perfect.

but that would not explain why a plain cup of coffee is also slower (~10 seconds).

I would not write any public policy on this, but I do think the kids found something interesting.

179

[QUOTE=Algher]
They control for type of drink, and have 295 observations - more than enough to be statistically significant.
[/QUOTE]

You’re right, but they also said that the larger variances for women placing “fancy orders” could indicate discrimination against women, but could also “be an indication that even within the category of ‘fancy orders’ women were more likely to place an order that required extra preparation.”

The article also notes in the results section that the longer wait women experience could be due to discrimination or because “…our crude measures of order type do not fully account for the possibility that women tend to place more complex orders.”

Additionally, the study also notes that when women order “fancy drinks,” they’re more likely to have special instructions.

Also in the results section, the article indicates that it might be discrimination, but it also may be that employees - both male and female - tend to chat more with women, so it might not be discrimination at all, but interaction instead.

I think it’s a very interesting article, but I’d like to know more about what they did and if it would be possible to prove the reverse.

And for what it’s worth, I do think that there are lots of situations where women do have to deal with discrimination (as a woman, I’ve often felt that if I were a man, I wouldn’t have to deal with some of the shit I get). In many cases, though, it’s very difficult to point out exactly where it’s happening and separate it from other behavior. In other words, was she discriminated against or was she being a bitch so the employee decided to work more slowly? Or was she really nice and struck up a conversation while the employee was making the drink?

180

[QUOTE=Algher]
Read the article - they recorded the drinks in 277 circumstances, and then coded as either fancy or not. They also admit that their crude order flagging is not perfect.
[/QUOTE]

I’d love to read the article, but it crashes my browser everytime I click on the PDF link.

But still, according to the abstract the difference is twenty seconds. When it comes to waiting on people, twenty seconds is almost imperceptible and could only be noticed through this kind of research. I could list 100 things that change the amount of time it takes me to wait on something in any given day.

I just think there are too many variables at stake here to make any kind of conclusion over 20 seconds.