I am one who chafes at the restrictions of political correctness. There should never be taboos against stating facts.
If you want a conversation on race, you better be prepared to do some listening. In an article that appeared in The New Republic about ten years ago, Charles Murray said that among whites there is a big difference between the public discussion on race, and the private discussion. He said it was time to make the private discussion public.
The problem is that you are not stating facts, you are stating, to put it kindly, your opinions. Opinions that are not backed by the evidence. Let’s review just one of things you have said:
Demonstrably false. Even your later attempt to restrict your comment to the US fails to bolster larger claim you made that Blacks have a genetic propensity to violence, crime, etc. In fact, it lends more credence to a cultural, or socioeconomic explanation. The sad part is that you haven’t even presented any “facts” that back up any assertions you have made.
I think we have been listening to you. Do you contend that this is not the case? I count several people that have responded tactfully and politely to your claims. They have provided cites and studies to show why what you contend is true is actually false. The issue is you conflate “listening” with agreement. Most of the people that have responded to you are listening, they just disagree. The disagreement seems to stem from the fact that your claims are not supported by evidence.
Again, I ask you, what are we missing? Do you make any room for the possibility that you could be wrong? If so, what kind of evidence would you need to convince you that that was indeed the case?
Of course they do, that’s plain to see. The important question, and the only question of any political or social relevance, is whether any of the race-variable genetically determined traits are psychological traits; and so far, there is no hard scientific evidence that any are.
AS others have continued to point out, your data does not support your conclusions. Your last link is simply an opinion piece of someone who agrees with you. That’s not even data.
Race war? Seriously?
You lose a little bit of your white privelege and the first thing you think of is race war?
/frankness on
If anyone is being harmed by affirmative action right now, it is Asians. For historical reasons I have no problem with giving all blacks and native American college applicants an advantage. I a problem giving latino college applicants an advantage because they generally have no disadvantage that I can see that doesn’t completely disappear with money but I can even live with that. I have a HUGE problem with the fact that white kids have an advantage over my children when applying to colleges because good schools think they have too many asians.
There is a magnet school in my area that is doing the same thing.
The GT program in frikking elementary school is going the same thing. My kids are in the top 1% and they barely make it into the GT programs because theya re Asian while white kids in the 95% get in. It doesn’t really bother me that 2 black kids and 3 Mexican kids made it into the top 100 (the GT program has enough funding for 100 kids). What bothers me is that there are 40 white kids that would never have made it into the GT program if they were Asian and there are 40 Asian kids that would have made it into the Gt program if they were white.
So a couple of black kids and a handful of Mexicans got in before you? Cry me a frikking river. 40 white kids got in before my kids.
The white attitude towards blacks seems to be “sorry life is tough, work harder and get in under your own steam” but don’t seem to notice any of the advantages they seem to enjoy. You really think Harvard (or any ivy league) wouldn’t have the same demographics as UC Berkely if race (and legacy)weren’t a factor?
Well, dude, I’m black and am working toward a PhD in molecular biology an am published on pubmed. All of your talk of genes is garbage because you don’t know what you’re talking about. You can’t point to one gene that accounts for intelligence because (surprise, surprise!) there isn’t one. You talk about the Bell Curve but have you read the penultimate chapter of the text? The authors essentially advocate taxpayers taking care of the blacks in order to quell the inherent predisposition for violence. I can go along with this as long as the taxpayers are cutting me a check every month. I also want my transcripts changed since most of the classmates were white. I should get an A++ since I had to overcome an inherent disability of being black and having an IQ score that’s categorizes me as retarded.
It’s threads like this that make me despise white people. You go on and on about the crimes of black people but about the crimes of white people? Other than Michael Jackson, when is the last time you heard of blacks trying to hump on little boys and girls for prepubscent sex? When is the last time a black person forced several thousand people to walk from the Southern part of the United States to the Midwest in defiance of federal law? When is the last time a black person ordered the execution of millions of white people? When is the last time a black person flew an airplane into a building over disagreements over owed taxes? When is the last time a black person walked into a school with a sawed-off shotgun and murdered 15 people? Blacks may commit crime but at least the crimes have an end-point or goal that rarely entails unmitigated cruelty toward humanity.
Ugh. I want to move to Europe.
Seems like there’s a couple of white people here expressing horrible nonsense. Wouldn’t it be wrong to hate an entire race because of the behavior of a few?
Sounds like you don’t have a problem. What makes you think that you should pay black people a dime more than you would pay other people? No one is asking you to.
As long as you obey the law, no one cares what you think. Personally though, I wouldn’t want to go around with that much hatred in my heart all the time. Seems like you carry it to a level where it may be harmful to your own health. This sentence in particular is hilariously extreme:
I mean really. Grow up.
Here is a classic example, and also look at many of USA’s larger cities.
http://www.umich.edu/~snre492/Jones/stlouis.htm#Demographics
The demographics of East St. Louis have changed drastically since the 1960s. Not only has the population split in half, but the African-American population has skyrocketed from 45 percent to 98.1 percent in the 1990 U.S. census. The average income for an East St. Louis family went from $15,927 in 1959 to $12,627 in 1989, whereas national averages totaled $18,426 in 1959 and more than $30,000 in 1989. Today, the median household income stands at $14,644, a figure nearly half the state average. Additionally, property collection tax is one-fourth what it was in 1970 (Tokar). (Taken from U.S. Census)
As of 1990, about 40 percent of the population lived below the poverty line (Bell, A1). Unemployment nears 30 percent. The northern end of East St. Louis, in zip code 62204, is the worst of 124 zip codes in St. Louis, St. Clair, and Madison Counties. Half of the residents live in poverty, 75 percent live on welfare and two out of five children are born to a teenager (Peterson, A1).
All most ALL do not even have a high school diploma though they were require to stay in school till about the 9th to 12th grade.
What you have is a bunch of squatting blacks returning to their African roots and it is all the white man’s fault for not giving them more hand outs and free-bees. And guess who they voted for, and the motivation certainly was not love of country.
So you have an entire black generation in E. St. Louis wasted away to being pan-handles on the streets where crime is so high, and ruthless, no white person would live there. You can forget about jobs as you do not even have an educated public to draw from. This must be the “black Culture” that Obama worships that all whites have to accept—yeah right.
The hell with E. St. Louis, it is a total loss without any hope of recovery.
Don’t blame me, I did not make E. St. Louis—blacks did.
And to make matters worse off, 1/3 of the police force will be fired, fire departments shut down, sevises are being suspended as trash collection, and the black unions what a pay raise.
It makes me wonder what about being “flat broke” do blacks not understand?
The site above goes on to make the case that the problem’s with E. St. Louis are environmental; Ex chemical plants, and toxic dumps, river pollution. But YET Flint Michigan and Detroit are having the same black problems as East St. Louis and is the 5th to 7th highest crime rate in the nation. Both these city are being gutted from the inside out.
Community organizing, and government funds, includes getting the blacks together to pick up their own trash, and clean up their own parks, and haul off the crap cars, but that seems to be a great problem. They cannot even police their own neighborhoods in vigilante groups that up hold the high standards of law as the whites did when settling the west. You do know whites hung many of our own kind, drove them out of town tar and feathered, and justice was fast and even some times cruel—but it worked.
I do not like it at all what blacks are doing, and I do not like black attitudes even more so since obama was elected. It seems the chip on black’s shoulders grew ten fold since obama gave them power by proxy.
Should whites say—its black degenerate genetics and throw up our hands in disgust and wall these cities off as they turn into black gutter camps? And do not say send more money, as Obama does, as chances are it is used for drugs and freeloaders that do not have the ambition to put a lid on their garbage cans.
Black mentality just blows me away. Black pride is good but white pride is racism. Ha ha, talk about being twisted in head that is it.
Believe it or not I want blacks to do well in the USA, and just because I’m white do not mean I have guarantees of anything. NO ONE gave me a job because I am white.
So what to do?
Blacks need to get their neighborhoods cleaned up, they want to riot and get pissed off do so against black criminals and drug dealers. STOP teenage pregnancies even if you have to lock up your men at night. Demand (at a gun point if needed) that ALL blacks get a valid high school diploma of a C average or better or forced to join a chain gang cleaning out sewers. Get some of those big strong black buffalos in the class room to kick the ass of those that skip school and loiter in menacing on the streets.
YOU know I’m filthy rich—I make no bones about it, you think I’m going to invest my money in a crime ridden, filthy, utterly stupid city or town? NOT a chance in hell. I will move out of the USA first.
I’m a proud American, and I want to say these are MY black country men, you touch them but in Freedoms and liberty, I will kick your ass to hell and back. And let me tell you to date blacks as a community do not make me very proud. Black culture sucks shit.
Blacks need to stop worshiping fake and fraud idols as Martin Luther King, and go on a rampage against black crimes and ignorance, and get with the USA program of riches, smarts, and prosperity. And that is not done by joining a stinking Union and demand more welfare checks as their unwed teenagers get drugged and pregnant.
Don
Don, you are seeing a huge enemy where none exists.
Black people did not get full rights to vote in the whole of the US until as recently as 1964 so it’s no surprise that feelings are still raw. But it’s important that you realise there is no us and them. We are all the same animals.
When the whites settled the west did they not subjugate the indigenious peoples? So that’s not a good model to follow.
I honestly think this exists only inside your own mind. Obama (as any president) is constrained by many things - the law, congress, interest groups. He couldn’t pursue a “black agenda” even if he wanted to.
ok quick primer on black pride. It kinda had it’s roots in the black consciousness movement ked by Steve Biko in South Africa. It’s roots lie in black people saying they are worth no less just because their skin happens to be black. It was born out of oppression.
It’s not just a group of people saying they are proud to be black - it’s a group of people affirming their identity because they had to because they were being treated badly. White pride doesn’t have that history of oppression. It’s just white people saying they are proud to be white. It doesn’t mean anything.
You see the difference?
You need to read into the working conditions of people in England in the 19th century. Workers needed to form unions to have any power at all against the factory owners. They lived in complete poverty. Unions are good - you can’t trust the factory-owners to take care of the workers. They will always operate according to what makes the most money for them so you need to legislate for workers in order to protect them.
And before you legislate you need to organise - to put on pressure to bring about legislation. Government and money tend to go hand in hand. So without organised labour groups then government will naturally follow what the rich owners want them to do.
If you’re rich, that’s proof that a white guy with the intellect and education of a menial labor* can get rich in this country. What more proof of white privilege would anyone need?
Make that move, my man. Canada needs you.
Not to mention the fact that some Wild West towns were crime ridden hellholes with astronomical murder rates.
Don gets his history from TV Westerns.
One could not start an honest discussion on race on this message board. They would be immediately banned or set up by 100 different posters frothing at the mouth about being a “white supremacist”, " a hate monger", “anti-semite”, “Nazi” and worse.
North Korea has more open free speech laws than The Straight Dope" message board.
Isn’t it our right under free speech to call posters white supremists, Nazi’s, and hate mongers?
I believe under GD rules we couldn’t do that anyway. Free speech or no
I’m sorry but did you read the part you quoted? He said he pays all people and genders the same and then gives raises based on capability. That’s the correct way to do things. He doesn’t say he pays people more because they’re black so I’m not sure where you got that.
Or maybe Nazi-scum can’t handle the reality of their own disgusting views/opinions/beliefs/delusions.
For those who are interested: A recent discussion about race, by two AA intellectuals.
(Recorded: July 30/Posted: August 2)
If you are that, own it. Have the courage of your convictions.
Racists are very sensitive and delicate people.