What the Nazis said about the Jews was not true. It really is true that blacks have a rate of violent crime that is at least seven times the white rate, an illegitimacy rate that is more than three times the white rate, and lower average intelligence. If there is to be “a frank discussion on race,” there must be no taboos, and no sanctions against pointing out these facts.
People regularly talk about crime rates and illegitamacy issues amongst blacks with no repercussions whatsoever.
Some of these people even get elected to high office.
Sorry but if you think you “can’t talk about those things without being called a racist” then you’re delusional.
It’s been my experience that when people talk about black crime with no repercussions, they’re usually talking statistics. It’s when you start trying to drill down to the reasons and suggest changes in attitudes and behavior from within the black community that you start running into accusations of racism. I’ve heard people get called racist for saying the very same things about the need for education and responsibility and the problems of fatherless homes and irresponsibilty and the difficulties caused by ebonics that Bill Cosby has said, the difference being that when Cosby says it he just gets called old and out of it. So the defense is there no matter who’s saying these things, it’s just that if a black guy does it he gets dismissed on some basis other than racism. Sort of like how Clarence Thomas and other black conservatives aren’t considered real black people by the liberal set. You have to toe the liberal line on race - which is largely hands off - or you get called racist, simple as that.
Yes, I agree BUT it doesn’t mean that you can’t point out racism in the debate. For example, Don 123 said a lot of racist things. Are we supposed to have a fank discussion about race where we cannot call out racism for what it is?
Well, thats not exactly true. I talk about all these things and (except for one poster) I don’t get called a racist by anyone on this board. I think the difference might be that I don’t say racist things along with making these statements.
I can talk about the toxic effects of some rap music or the fact that there was once a time when black men called each other “brother” instead of “nigger” without being caled a racist. This is a direct attack on some aspects of black culture.
I can bring up the IQ gap and the correlation IQ has with socioeconomic success without being called a racist, because I acknowledge (without providing excuses) that the effects of racism persists. But if I said “therefore, affirmative action has done all that can be done because the remaining gap is clearly the result of the inferiority of the black man” then I would be called a racist.
A frank discussion of race without accusations of racism requires a lack of racism.
Before criticizing Don 123 I would need to know what he has posted here. I did a search for his name and could not find anything. I do not feel like defending someone who freely uses the n word, and expresses hatred for all blacks, including Barack Obama, whom I voted for and intend to vote for again. Nevertheless, I think there are too many taboos and sanctions against discussing black crime, black illegitimacy, inferior black academic performance and the possible genetic reasons for these problems.
The word “racist” should not be used in “a frank discussion on race.” It is an appeal to emotion, a smoke screen and a red herring. The only thing that should matter is whether or not a statement is factually true, and whether or not an argument is logical.
“Just My Imagination,” was a hit song released by the Temptations in 1971. The song is about unrequited love. Can anyone imagine a rap music song about unrequited love? Is it just my imagination, or has the black culture seriously degenerated during the past forty years?
As you may be aware, I think all of American culture has degenerated during the last forty years.
Still, I don’t think there is any question that black culture has degenerated even moreso during that time. In my opinion this is due primarily to: welfare and public housing, which created cesspools of criminality in a community doomed to bare existence on the dole; drugs and their associated crime; and a hands-off approach to virtually anything negative coming from black culture - whether it be crime, unwed pregnancies, poor academic performance, ebonics, rap music or whatever - which has accomplished little but to encourage these negative aspects of black culture to flourish free from societal restaint.
If you look at how black people dressed and acted in the 50’s and 60’s, you’ll see it pretty much reflected the way white people dressed and acted in the 50’s and 60’s. And if you watch civil rights demonstrations of that time you will see boys and men in slacks and dress shirts and ties and girls and women in their Sunday dresses, demonstrating peaceably and with dignity, even in the face of horrendous opposition.
It’s only been in the wake of the counterculture revolution and the rise of widely accepted liberal social attitudes that black culture so has developed many of the negative characteristics that currently plague both it and attempts to create a truly colorblind society. And until the time comes when blacks and whites can co-mingle freely and easily and see each other only as fellow human beings rather than members of this or that alien culture, that racism will truly come to an end. And if and when that time ever comes, I have every belief that you will see black people performing just as well academically as whites. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever, apart from societal influences - whether here or in Europe or in Africa or wherever - that black people are in any way less intelligent than whites.
What has also contributed has been a decline in reasonably well paying jobs with good benefits that do not require genius level IQs and professional degrees from elite universities.
What racist tripe. No doubt, you’re a “white” starving artist. And why would that be? In a land where you are afforded every opportunity and edge by the institution of “white privilege”, why on Earth would you be a “starving artist”? Could it, perhaps, be due to the fact that your art “sucks”, “big time”? No doubt.
I don’t know what gives you the right, insight or the wherewithall or context to say that black culture has degenerated on any level. What do you even know or understand of black culture?
Welfare and public housing? Like there are no white people on welfare or in public housing. Cesspools of criminality? Like white people don’t commit crimes.
Unwed pregnancies? And of course , there are no unwed pregnant white women and girls. Academic poor performance? Well, let’s see…let’s put white public schools at a disadvantage, via resources and infrastructure, including capable and competent teachers and see how fast the test scores drop.
Ebonics? Would that be the same as the dialect or speech of rural Appalachia?
Rap music? Which is repeatedly bought in record numbers by white youth, who can’t seem to get enough of it. Are you noting the hypocrisy you espouse?
Oh, and look, you seek to paint yourself as “sympathetic” by invoking images of innocuous “blacks” as proof that “not all of 'em are n-words and ghetto rats”.
Those blacks which you approve of, much like those blacks that tote the Tea Party line, are the “good” n-words, to be tolerated and thrown scraps, reminiscent of “Massa’s table”, who are viewed by the status quo of the black community as 'Stephin Fetchits", Uncle Toms and race traitors.
But as you and yours continue to emulate black fashion, culture, idioms, music, art, sensibilities, and vibe, keep telling yourself that it’s blacks that need to assimilate into white society, instead of the actuality of you assimilating into ours.
“Co-mingle, freely and easily”??? Another way of justifying the rape of a people, wouldn’t you say? See each other as fellow human beings…? Oh, you mean forgive you your trespasses and look the other way, as you continue to perpetrate? Good luck with that.
Do you see the coming conclusion? Are you not seeing that everything and everyone wants to truly “be free”. What do you suppose is happening all across the Middle East? Folks are “waking up”. And high time.
What you are experiencing are the throes of rapidly becoming a minority.
It’s not nearly as painful as you make it out to be.
Liar. Charlatan. Reprobate.
How dare you perpetrate lies. Where did you get the documentation for your claims? Undoubtedly, from data compiled by whites who have an agenda.
And you call yourself " New Deal Democrat". My ass.
In 1960 the black rate of illegitimacy was about 20 percent. Now it is about 70 percent. Black crime is much higher too, although the overall crime rate has declined since 1980.
Can’t say that I’ve read the thread, but I just wanted to add that from this French perspective, I agree with this statement.
“In 2005, [murder] rates for blacks were more than 7 times higher than the rates for whites”
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/homicide/race.cfm
In recent years the noted pattern of test scores has reflected similar numbers–
Editor, 2005
SAT Ethnic Group Scores (Math/Verbal+total)
• African American-----426/431 (857)
• White-----534/529 (1063)
Source: www.collegeboard.com
Average ACT Composite Score by Race/Ethnicity, 2003
• African American ----16.9
• Caucasian---- 21.7
Source: www.act.org
SAT and ACT Scores by Race/Ethnicity
Last year, 68.0 percent of the black women who had babies were unmarried…
the illegitimacy rate among non-Hispanic whites [was] 22.9 percent.
http://www.isteve.com/2003_Black_Illegitimacy_Rate_Declines.htm
There you go again, thinking you can speak for black people, about black people.
Bill Cosby, whom I admire (and still do, to a degree, though diminished), was taken to task for his attack on the black community by Dr. Michael Eric Dyson, in his book, “Is Bill Cosby Right?” (http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/7681419).
Clarence Thomas has shown himself to be an enemy of the black community, as he hasn’t voted once for anything remotely resembling sympathy for any persons of color. So much so, he, like O.J. Simpson, felt he needed the “white trophy wife”, to feel accepted and assimilated in the only world he reveres, “the white world”.
Please. Give me a break.
There is a reason Republicans and conservatives (read : stogy white men) are up in arms…there’s a n-word in the White House, they have to get rid of, at all costs, and by any means. A Stephin Fetchit in the Supreme Court, balanced (and controlled) by other white men…totally permissible. A n-word in the White House, directing the flow of traffic??? Oh, hell no.
We would have the same tendencies if slavery had been maintained on French mainland for as long as it did in the US. Go to the French Antilles if you think we dont have heavily loaded discussions on race on French territory.
Excuse me, but are you familiar with Wiki leaks? Do you know how much information has been doctored , lied about and kept from the American populace and the world???
How dare you throw statistics at me, as if I would even consider them to be valid or legitimate. They were compiled and composed by white people with the express agenda of demonizing black people and keeping them from the truth.
You are preaching to the absolute wrong choir. I can’t hear you. Is a tantrum next?
What an idiot. You don’t know anything about black culture, much less rap or spoken word. Quit espousing as if you’re an authority. You are not, in the least.
Lies. White statistics compiled by white people about black people. Period.
In ‘Is Bill Cosby Right?’ professor Michael Eric Dyson debates the comedian’s criticism of low-income blacks made at last year’s NAACP awards. Read an excerpt
In the New York Times a few days after his remarks, I offered that Cosby’s comments “betray classist, elitist viewpoints rooted in generational warfare,” that he was “ill-informed on the critical and complex issues that shape people’s lives,” and that his words only “reinforce suspicions about black humanity”…
while Cosby is right to emphasize personal behavior…we must never lose sight of the big social forces that make it difficult for poor parents to do their best jobs and for poor children to prosper…
Usually the sort of bile that Cosby spilled is more expertly contained, or at least poured on its targets in ways that escape white notice…
Cosby’s overemphasis on personal responsibility, not structural features, wrongly locates the source of poor black suffering — and by implication its remedy — in the lives of the poor. When you think the problems are personal, you think the solutions are the same. If only the poor were willing to work harder, act better, get educated, stay out of jail and parent more effectively, their problems would go away…
Cosby completely ignores shifts in the economy that give value to some work while other work, in the words of William Julius Wilson, “disappears.” In our high-tech, high-skilled economy where low-skilled work is being scaled back, phased out, exported, or severely under-compensated, all the right behavior in the world won’t create better jobs with more pay…
a disproportionate number of black (men) are incarcerated for nonviolent drug offenses…
there are the problems of the working poor: folk who rise up early every day and often work more than forty hours a week, and yet barely, if ever, make it above the poverty level…
The characteristics Cosby cites are typical of all families that confront poverty the world over…
In suburban neighborhoods, there are $60-million schools with state-of-the-art technology, while inner city schools fight desperately for funding for their students.
It is not true that poor people everywhere in the world behave like poor blacks in the United States. China and India have much worse poverty than we do, and much lower crime rates. When poor people in China and India migrate to the United States they still have low crime rates.
Nor is it true that inferior black performance in public schools is due to insufficient funding. Washington, DC has the third most expensive public school system in the United States. School performance there is worse than in any of the fifty states. The student body in DC public schools is 85 percent black. There are plenty of white liberals in Washington, DC. They talk the talk of racial equality. They know better than to walk the walk.
Poverty is no excuse for crime; it is no excuse for having illegitimate children and expecting the tax payers to provide child support. The tougher life is the more important it is to live in ways that are morally responsible.