The father and daughter are on my local news right now watching them you can see that the Dad is an arrogant SOB and probably pissed off whatever judge heard this case. The daughter cannot take the GED until she is 17 (the judge would not give her an exception) but the worst part is this:
Mr. Lipsman said that the judge actually threatened to remove his daughter from the home. What kind of stupid shit is that?
Wow. If I ever needed proof that the educational and legal systems of this country are fundamentally fucked, this is it.
Huh. What’s strange is that currently at the U. of Chicago, we’ve got a 12-year-old kid going into the MSTP (M.D., Ph.D.) program (that my brother’s been languishing in since 1997). He started at Loyola when he was 9, and I don’t recall reading about any legal issues that came up when he started school.
Links: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/12/05/60II/main254786.shtml
http://www.dailyillini.com/may03/may07/news/stories/campus01.shtml
Dang. I’d better order another gross of rolleyes smilies, we’re gonna need them.
Seriously, if this girl is able to do college level work AND maintain a pretty darn good grade average at her tender age, it would be cruel to make her sit through high school classes. She’d be bored out of her mind, and probably would turn her fearsome intellect to mischief.
Who was it who first said “the tallest stalk always gets lopped off”?
It seems that the judge is more concerned with finding something wrong with the situation, so that he can impose his morals on the case.
Child Protection Services will come in with an argument along the lines of “failing to provide a proper social atmosphere for the child’s emotional growth” to back up the order to remove the child.
It sounds like the greatest sin here was the failure of the parent to fill out all the required forms and jump through the hoops. Because of this, a child’s life may be ruined.
Now, hold on a minute.
As someone who went to college at age 16, and has regretted that decision ever since, I can see at least the motivation behind the judge’s actions, if not the actions themselves. Most 15-year-olds are NOT ready for college. They may be ready academically (and I was), but they are NOT ready emotionally.
My first two years of college were sheer hell. I had nothing in common with anyone else there, and I couldn’t make friends. The college I went to didn’t do a thing about easing my situation–hell, they didn’t even seem to know what to do about it. Since I hadn’t turned 16 in time to get my driver’s license before I went to college, I couldn’t even drive home on the weekends, and that was a major consideration as I was living 80 miles away. I underwent a severe bout of depression, and I don’t really think I recovered for the next seven years.
Furthermore, as someone who now works at a university, I take exception to the rule that this woman cannot start her bachelor’s degree as being called “really, really dumb.” Colleges are allowed to set their own entrance requirements! Big surprise! And if those entrance requirements include a high school diploma or a GED, that’s the rules. Colleges aren’t obligated to take in everybody who applies.
And yes, Lynn, it may be “cruel” for a kid to have to sit through high school classes. Lord knows it was boring as hell for me to sit through my last year of high school, as I’d already taken every senior-level course save one. I, too, chafed at the idea of having to sit through a year’s worth of dull, boring courses. I thought that my problems would be solved when I went to college. They weren’t. What would I have given to spend two years in high school not working so hard on my academics and instead concentrating on extra-curricular activities, volunteering and–most importantly–just being a kid!
And, boy is this dad ever a treat. “I’ll go to prison before my daughter goes to high school?” I don’t think he’s guilty of neglect at all. But it’s misplaced priorities, no doubt. If his daughter is mature enough to go to college, then he should be able to distance himself from the situation.
In conclusion, let me say this. What is the advantage of graduating from college at age 17 or 20? Absolutely zero. Either you go into the work force, where prospective employers will question your maturity level, or you will go into grad school, where the cycle will merely be repeated. I’d give everything I had to have not lost my childhood. She’ll always be able to go to college, but she’s never going to be 16 again.
Well, if she grows up to be a supervillianess, let’s hope she at least wears a lot of tight black leather.
My uncle also went to college at 16, and although academically he was fine, he was pretty much in hell socially. Those extra two years do wonder for the maturity level.
If the child was to transfer to a college out of state…and the parent should move to that state…the judicial ego trip might be nullified.
Oh my gosh, are Biggirl and I disagreeing on something? Whoa!
Anyway, a few thoughts – I don’t think this is such a big deal. Kids younger than 17 go to college all the time. We have tons at the school where I work. Okay, not tons. But, ya know, some. There are plenty of ways to get that done, and from the article, it sounds like this guy didn’t pursue any of them. Again, from the information in the article, I think he just decided to let his daughter stop going to high school. I think it speaks well of the state that they frown upon people yanking their kids out of school on a whim – how is the school system supposed to know if your kid stopped going to school because she’s a super-genius, or if you decided to turn her out? As her PARENT, it was up to him to WORK WITH the school system to notify them of home schooling, or combo high school/college learning before taking his child out of school.
Also, I’m not convinced that the girl is a super-genius in the first place – the article doesn’t mention her acing the SATs, or being accepted to Harvard Law, or anything like that. Not to disparage Manhattan Community College (it’s a fine institution, in my professional opinion) or anything, but they have a number of bright high school kids enrolled in classes at any given time and they seem to do well, so it’s very nice that Angela maintains a high GPA but I don’t think it’s Nobel-worthy.
To jump on the other side of the fence for a moment, just FYI, the Dad’s quote was that he’ll “go to prison before my daughter goes to a CITY high school” (emphasis mine) so he’s crabbing about the New York City Public School System, which is one of the most popular hobbies in NYC and generally socially acceptable.
I think it’s absolutely fine to ride the Dad’s case about his decision to take matters into his own hands. I don’t know if it’s Child Protection worthy, but I’m willing to give them the benefit of the doubt because they hopefully have more information than I do. At the same time, it would nice if Angela was not punished simply for having the misfortune of having a doofus for a father, and it sounds like the city school system is working with her to make sure that doesn’t happen. All’s well that ends well.
Some interesting parts of the story:
First, it isn’t as if she is attending U of Chicago, Yale, or any other quite well respected college, she’s going to the Borough of Manhattan Community College and Fashion Institute of Technology. A fashion institute? Puhlease. I can easily see the judge thinking that that particular program might be lacking in the proper educational surroundings. Although in her defense, she wants to transfer to Excelisor College.
Second, as the judge pointed out, she had options that her father, in his desperate attempt at fulfilling his own shortcomings, ignored.
Third, the judge’s ruling may or may not be based on sound legal principles. I haven’t read it, but it isn’t a far stretch to say that it was probably legally sound. Age discrimination suits filed by teenagers (or “on behalf of teenagers”) are generally not very successful.
Finally, as the story points out, they are evaluating her “college” credits to see if they would apply to a high school education. Seems fair to me. Seems like a reasonable way of handling this situation.
I just don’t see what the hulabaloo is about.
You wouldn’t know it from observing some of the freshmen and sophomores around here. 
I have the exact opposite feeling. I wish I had been able to take extremely challenging courses, and possibly have gone on to college at 16 or so. I was already a social misfit from grade one, and having something interesting to do would probably have kept me in school. One size does not fit all in education, a fact which forever eludes our educators.
I’d hire her sans degrees. Really, the stupidty would culminate when someone needed to see her degrees!
You might change your mind after you see what she looks like.
Angela already has enough credits to graduate college, she wasn’t homeschooled and Child Welfare has absolutely no reason to investigate the home, not if the only thing they have on the dad is “educational neglect”. The girl went to school!
I, personally think the young woman should travel until she’s 17 and then she can get all her degrees at once with a few years of world experience under her belt.
But to punish the child for her dad’s arrogance is stupid and counterproductive.
Hey, I felt exactly the same way you did. I wanted more than anything to get out of high school. But was I the best person to make that decision? No way.
“Something interesting to do” shouldn’t mean higher-level courses. Now that I look back, it would have been important for me to do other things: concentrate on sports or volunteer work or even setting up student activities. Anything to get the social side of my life up to speed with the academic side. It was precisely that imbalance in my life, and the lives of students I’ve known in the same positions, that caused my problems in the first place.
And so far as “one size fitting all” in education, it was my high school’s ham-handed attempts to give me a “unique education” that “fitted my needs” that caused a heck of a lot of problems. Rather than just have me skipping 6th grade and go to 7th, they decided to put me in a few 7th grade classes, a few 8th grade classes, all the way up to 10th grade classes, because that was allegedly what my academic skill set required. Never mind the fact that I never had the same set of classmates twice. Yes, one size doesn’t fit all. But that doesn’t mean any size can fit one.
I don’t understand this American obsession with over-acheivement (something that unfortunately creeping over to this side of the pond with a new school offering GCSEs for primary school kids), in the UK I know about two people who were put up a year, even then there were other factors. In the most exceptional cases they might put you up 2 years but the general consenus is that children are far better off in their peer group.
15 is too young to go to college, is it not better that the girl should wait a few years until she is emotionally mature enough? Why the need to go so young, it’s unlikely to benefit her.
I’ll try again. This particular court case is not about whether the girl should go to college at 15. Angela Lipsman already has enough college credit to get an associates degree. She just wants the diploma she has already earned.