And if hell is in the center of Venus, every way is up just as much. You do know the Earth isn’t at the center of the universe, right?
You do know earth is where people live then?
Siege- technically, even if they never use the term ‘Rapture’, any Christian who believes that a future Tribulation will occur, concluding at Christ’s Second Coming
is a post-Trib Rapturist.
Btw, Tim LaHaye is upset that his LB publisher Tyndale House is publishing a novel by Hank Hanengraff THE LAST DISCIPLE which takes the position that Revelation addresses the Roman persecution of Christians & siege of Jerusalem.
Get ready for what would be the greatest media event in human history. I envision people suddenly ascending like so many human shaped helium balloons bobbing up through the atmosphere akin to a scene in “Willy Wonka’s Chocolate Factory”. This should be quite a sight, witnessing people suddenly hitting the ceilings of their houses after being rudely plucked out of the bathtub or off the “John”. Just hope you are out in the open when it occurs.
What if I’m acrophobic? 
Right. No ceilings will be hit, we will be given new bodies, which do not hit things.
And it says in the twinkling of an eye; it will be so fast, no one will see us ascending.
Why wouldn’t you sell your stuff? There’s got to be a non-believer who could benefit from your stuff (and the resulting money, seeing as you won’t be needing it anymore anyway). Sell everything and say your good-byes. And try to stay away from activities like flying planes or driving trains or nuclear transport vehicles. You don’t want to fuck things up for the rest of the planet, do you???
- I have no stuff.
Well, a few clothes, and 3 books.
2.I don’t know when it will happen so why sell stuff?
Now, see…I’ve found that beer is thicker than team loyalty in situations like these.
I think the preface to this was that you knew the rapture was going to come. Don’t you have dishes, appliances, a car, furniture, etc?
Someone could use all that stuff.
Well put. I don’t disagree with that statement. The Spirit works through the words.
Revelation 4:1 “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”
I know this isn’t the “proof text” you are looking for. Frankly, I don’t think there is going to be a text that will be enough to convince you. You refuse to accept 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 as a discussion of the rapture, and hold that the rapture is not mentioned at all in the Bible. Obviously, I disagree with your opinion. However, I’d ask you not to claim the position is ignorant, since I don’t think you would claim to “have it all figured out” when it comes to Judeo-Christian eschatology.
Why? Can you prove that this is untrue any more than I can prove that it is true? I personally believe in the “quaint notion”, and see no reason to change my position. I believe the first heaven is the sky, the second heaven is outer space, and the third heaven is Heaven, and Hell is in the center of the earth. If anything, the fact that you disagree with it makes me want to keep believing it more.
[QUOTE=Psycho PirateRevelation 4:1 “After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.”
I know this isn’t the “proof text” you are looking for. Frankly, I don’t think there is going to be a text that will be enough to convince you. You refuse to accept 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 as a discussion of the rapture, and hold that the rapture is not mentioned at all in the Bible. Obviously, I disagree with your opinion. However, I’d ask you not to claim the position is ignorant, since I don’t think you would claim to “have it all figured out” when it comes to Judeo-Christian eschatology.[/quote]
I’m just talking about what the Bible says and doesn’t say. It doesn’t say anything about a Rapture event, Thessalonians is about the 2nd coming.
There is no such thing as “Judeo-Christian” eschatology. There is Jewish eschatology and there is Christian eschatology (in all its many forms). They are not the same and cannot be hyphenated.
Are you serious?
No car, just clothes, a few bowls and plates, and a tv and mattress.
I will will it to an atheist, hows that?
See, I completely disagree. The word “rapture” may not be used, but the concept is clearly (to me, anyway) there. The word “Trinity” isn’t used either, but the concept is there.
A mistake of terminology on my part. It is a rather muddy term, although it’s use is common.
All except the last sentence about you not believing it making me want to believe it, yes. Not that this is the subject of this thread, but since you asked, I thought I’d answer.
Actually, I suspect there are a lot of Christians out there who haven’t really given what’s entailed in Christ’s coming again a second thought, so to speak. Even I haven’t thought all that much about it, simply because objectively, I’m not sure what difference it would make, and I can’t see it happening in my lifetime, although, of course, I could be wrong. Frankly, given a choice between pondering whether there will be a Tribulation will occur and, if so, what it will be like, and thinking about a certain engineer, I’ll take the latter.
As for LaHaye, I hate to admit this, but I can see his point of view. I get the impression for him the rapture is as essential to Christian theology as Christ’s death and resurrection. Therefore, to him, what his publisher is doing would be the equivalent of publishing a book which made the Resurrection out to be a hoax. Again, I’m making assumptions here, and I haven’t read that much about LaHaye, but if he’s writing books with the intention of getting people to see the Truth and change their ways, having a book come out which directly contradicts that Truth can’t be that palatable.
CJ
Just have them send it to me.
I’m not going; I have work to do here. ;j
Hmmm, according to Tyndale’s website, the Left Behind for Kids is “best-selling juvenile fiction series of all time.”
I find that VERY hard to believe. Surely Harry Potter alone would have eclipsed them!
You and me both, brother, you and me both! ;j back at ya!
CJ
The usual explanation: Polycarp is my brother in spirit. No biological relationship has been proven, despite his attempts to make me out to be related to royalty!
I can just see the long line at Powell’s used book buying counter.
“No thanks, we have enough Bibles and Left Behind books”.
I don’t suppose buying life insurance would help anything…
True. I guess that the upsurge of PreTrib Rapture theology’s cultural visibility, with its crowning achievement being Left Behind, has resulted in the general culture having shorthanded that school with the ‘Rapture’ name for most conversational purposes.
In any case, it is true that the dominant POV in Christendom today (and for centuries!), has been that if there were a Tribulation and a Rapture, they would happen in that order. And as mentioned, the majority blocks of Christians in the world do not subscribe to the PreTrib Rapture. (It DID shock me to just read someone claiming they never met any Christian was not a believer in PreTrib Rapture.)