It (the unapproachable light) sure isn’t on this earth. I believe the fortelling of the meeting in the air (sky) is probably to show that those “heavenly tabernacles” (2 Cor. 5:1-4) we (those going “up”) will be fitted with are not bound to this earth, i.e., not “earthy” (1 Cor. 15:49). The body the Lord was in after he was raised, in which he appeared to over “five hundred brethren” (1 cor. 15:6), was definitly not bound to this earth. (see John 20:14-31; Acts 1:9,10). When we change out these earthly tabernacles for those heavenly ones, Philippians 3:21 says these new bodies will be "fashioned like unto his (the Lord’s) glorious body, and wherever it is we’re going, it’s going to be glorious!
Why would Warnke lie about having been a Satanist? I thought that at least as far back as IIRC Augustine, it was both acceptable (and a fine strategy) to admit in great detail one’s sins and indiscretions prior to being saved, and then speak about one’s present life. Why lie instead of ‘I was without hope. I looked everywhere for answers. I was so lost and empty, I even joined the very church of Satan! But, you don’t find answers there! And you don’t find answers between the thighs of whores! Or in the bottom of whiskey glass! There’s only one place you can find answers (taps cross). All the answers you’ll ever need!’
Psycho Pirate Thanks for explaining. I remain confused about one aspect though. If the Holy Spirit alone can grant understanding of the NT (and presumably, having the Spirit touch you and grant you understanding is an experience that convinces people to become Christians), what about the OT? And what about all the Jews and Muslims who believe in and worship the God of Abraham, but don’t believe in the NT? Do they not understand the OT? or does God grant them an understanding of the OT but not the NT?
Diogenes I can show you Hell. It is a place of foulness and it breeds foulness. The air is thick with smoke and dust. The waters run thick with filth and sludge. Man call the place New Jersey.
If Warnke hadn’t lied about satanism he never would have had a career. His entire act was built around an elaborate story that he had been a “high priest” of Satan with thousands of followers and access to the highest echalons of political power. The whole story was really just a transparent, egoistic fantasy in which powerful people came to him for favors and beautiful women groveled at his feet. I believe that Warnke has been credited with helping to create the entire “Satan’s Underground” urban legend of the '80s.
In retrospect, his story was so patently ridiculous and demonstrably false in many of its details that I’m amazed anyone ever believed it at all.
Ah, I misunderstood. I read it as ‘Warnke had falsely claimed not to have been a Satanist’.
You do not want my clothes(they are female clothes).
But seriously, isn’t that presumptuous of you?
Oh, I’m not going, I’ll deny the joy of Heaven cause I care more about the lost here.
God does not need you here during the tribulation, he does have those 144,000 Jewish witnesses, you know.
Isn’t it presumptuous of you, vanilla, to assume that you’ll automatically be going to Heaven?
Nope.
The Bible (God’s word) states we can have the assurance of everlasting life.
It would be presumptuous to say that I will stay and suffer cause I care more about the lost than those who want to go.
I think it’s presumptuous to assume what kind of clothes Polycarp likes to wear.
Is this presumptuous?
‘Leave Sodom and Gamorah. I’m gonna destroy them.’
"Don’t! There are people living there!’
‘I know. They’re evil people.’
‘Not all of them! I’m sure I can find good people.’
‘Suuuuure you can. Find Me a 100 good people and I’ll change My mind.’
Or this
‘Moishe, bubbele, go tell pharoah to let your people go.’
‘I have a speech impediment. You should pick somebody else.’
‘Excuse me, but who’s a lost shepherd and who’s an everlasting god talking out of a magic bush?’
‘Yeah…But, still…What about Aaron? He’d make a better prophet.’
Or
‘Hey, Lord! Great news! We have a mighty army!’
‘I want a tiny army.’
‘Umm, Lord, you do understand how this whole war thing works right? A bigger army is better.’
‘I want a tiny army.’
‘Umm. No disrespect, but what with the English longbow not being invented for a few millenia, more soldiers would really help us win here.’
Good point. I own no skirts or dresses.
Hope he likes black, though.
::: contemplates how Polygoth would sound :::: 
What an apropos signature for this thread!
That sounds too much like the scene in The Lost Boys, when the kid starts “turning” and is stuck to the ceiling.
“You’re a stinking blood sucker! I’m telling mom!” 
It is not essential to all Christian theologies. Most Catholics do not hold with it, and (haven’t asked him directly) reportedly the Pope doesn’t hold with it either.
Oh, that’s true enough, and it’s complete anathema to my take on Christianity, but I was trying to see things from LaHaye’s and perhaps Psycho Pirate’s and vanilla’s points of view.
Something Polycarp wrote yesterday got me thinking. One key part of my Christian faith is that I am obligated not only to serve God but to serve my fellow man. If someone needs help and I can give it, I must do so. It’s an obligation I try to fulfill in real life, although I’m afraid I usually fall short. It seems to me that if I get raptured into heaven, I am abandoning my fellow man. It’s like the Pharisees walking by the man who was beaten and attacked by robbers, or the rich man who had followed all the commandments.
There’s another divide going on here. For me, Guinastasia, I think, and some other Christians, to presume we’re going to heaven is the height of arrogance, second only to presuming to know God’s will. I’m amused by what a friend of my mother whose been known to say she’s given up all hope of heaven and is just working on an air conditioner in hell. This woman is one of the most saintly people my mother knows. Christ, Himself, says not everyone who expects to go to Heaven will go. One prayer the Episcopal church uses before Communion (the Lord’s Table, to some) is the Prayer of Humble Access which reads:
Come to think of it, the mindset of focusing on oneself, not others, is reflected in vanilla’s assuming Polycarp wanted her clothes for himself. Granted, it’s a reasonable joke and a natural first assumption in a secular, material world, but Polycarp’s not exactly the secular, material kind. As it is, there are a lot of people in this world who need clothing; during these tribulations, I’d assume there are going to be a lot more.
Right now, I’m warm, safe, Saved, so to speak, well fed, with a good job waiting for me, good friends, and a good man who loves me. There are a lot of people who aren’t that fortunate. One of those good friends, that former fundamentalist, is among them, feeling very depressed at the prospect of facing the holidays without his wife of thirty years. Two weeks ago, a large factory near here closed, throwing a lot of people out of work, and there’s talk of a maintenance facility for a major airline closing soon. As it is, the people who work for the airline are being asked to give up their pensions. I know how it feels; two years ago, I was out of work with no prospects in sight myself. Christ spent His lifetime caring for the least and worst off in society. For me to sit here comfortably in the assurance that my worldly troubles, such as they are, or even such as they have been, will end and I will be pulled straight up to heaven is to blind myself to the needs of others. As Christ told a certain rich, comfortable, pious man, once, it isn’t enough.
CJ
So… I’m on the Santa Monica freeway with 10,000 other people in their cars traveling at high speed and all of a sudden in the “twinkling of am eye” empty cars go careening into me? Small children and the family dog in those cars, who know nothing of the rapture, would be innocent victims, would they not?
So…I’m on the operating table undergoing a quadruple heart bypass and the doctor is wisked away in the “twinkling of an eye”?
So…I’m doing my first tandem jump skydiving, and my instructor gets the “rapture”?
I have no doubt, whatsoever, that you in your wisdom, have all these and a multitude of other scenerios covered.
Well, it hardly matters, TLC, since because you didn’t “believe in Jesus” in quite the right way to be eligible for being Raptured, you’re bound for Hell anyway, so in the long run, who cares whether you die of injuries from 10,000 driverless cars crashing into you, incomplete bypass surgery, etc.? The Good Guys are going to their reward; so should you, down to yours.
It’s that sort of arrant egotism and callousness towards those we’re commanded to love that pisses me off about LaHayesians.
All this only reaffirms my belief that God is Nelson Muntz.
As is usual lately, the oh so compassionate Siege gets snooty about me again.
Oh, I am so selfish and only care about myself; Imagine! Wanting to go to Heaven since thats where God wants us! The shock.
Oh, she cares more about people than I do, obviously. :rolleyes:
You want to stay here after the raptiure, finer, enjoy yourself.
Do you realize you come across as holier than thou?