Let's Talk About Love, Shall We?

Ok… I was having a discussion with my best friend (male) about love, and the usage of the term in a relationship. A caveat… I’ve never been the first one in a relationship to use the love word.

My friend and I both agreed that we think the term is overused, and generally used when people have no idea of what it means. Especially frustrating to me is that people seem to use it as punctuation - i.e., they end a phone call with “love you, bye”.

My general philosophy tends to be this.

I’ve said “I love you” to two people in my life. After the end of the relationships, I came to the conclusion that however deeply I felt for them, it was hardly love. I doubt that I’ve ever been in love. I’m not even sure what that means.

In my opinion, of course, it is possible to feel deeply for someone… but love? Love has to be rare to be real. True love, whatever the fuck that is, should be soul ripping - if that person ever leaves you, it should be impossible to recover. If you use the term love, you should use it only if you are certain that everything you’ve ever felt is moot in comparison to what you feel for this person, and that this feeling is not fleeting. Love should be forever, immutable, and unforgiving.

I think I will be very leary to tell someone I love them in the future, having uttered the words out of obligation in the past. Anyone care to weigh in with your definition of love?

Once you have experienced it, you won’t have to ask.

I think there have been a few books and songs about it, but again…until you have been there, it is like trying to describe an orgasm to a virgin.

I agree that it can sometimes be too easy to say without meaning it.

That said, there are different kinds of love, and sometimes the issue is just that ‘love’ in one context to one person does not mean the same to another person.

Personally, I disagree with most of that. Not that I don’t believe love is important and special, but that I feel that love does change, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse. For me, holding onto a ‘forever’ and ‘immutable’ definition of love does nothing but call into question any feelings of love I might have. Is this ‘enough’ love to justify the word love? Is this feeling enough that I know it will satisfy all needs at all times? What if I can’t live up to that? What if she can’t? Do I really know about the future?

If I needed to know that my life depended on a love (figuratively, of course), I don’t know that I’d ever allow myself to love. There was a time when I thought I might be with someone for the long haul, and now that relationship in that form is over. I don’t think my feelings then were wrong; I did love her, truly and deeply. But, things change.

In other words, it’s not that I didn’t love her then, or she didn’t love me then, but we don’t love each other now (at least, not in that way).

My life was changed wonderfully for the better by her, and I hope she feels the same about me to some degree. I’ve been enriched, and was happy for a number of years. I could expect no more from any partner.

I don’t think love is over-used. I think it is a word that is expected to imply too many things, and a word that people too often don’t use to mean the same thing when they say it to eachother.

Sometimes I think the word love is overused. Mostly by people who feel they have to reply in kind when they truly don’t feel it.

But as Eonwe says, there are different kinds of love. I tell my family I love them, my son especially. It doesn’t cheapen it for me because I do love them.

Then there are the men… or maybe I should say boys. One of them at least was very boyish. Well I loved them both (at different times) and even got up the courage to tell them. One didn’t return that love, one did… for a time. The first was more teenagerish love… the second. I don’t know, I’ll have to get further from it before I could say.

I think the problem with the word love is all the baggage that’s implied. That if you only love each other, everything will be perfect. But you have to work at it. There are different stages of love, and only true love is when it lasts through them all. Sadly, you can’t tell if it was true love until you look back at the end of your life. Most people see love as… a grand fixer. You hear people saying stuff like ‘if only they loved me more’ or ‘if only I loved them better’, and many people are in love with the idea of love. I am too a bit.

This isn’t really answering your question though.

For me, love is when you care very deeply about someone. When just to hear their voice or see them adds something to your day. When you worry about them, about what’s happening in their lives, about how they feel and they do the same about you. It’s friendship and lust and a common outlook on life. It’s cuddling or space when you need it and the knowledge that if you need help they will be there, that it’s not you against the world but both of you together. It’s a completion, a sharing. Not two empty lives being made whole, but two whole lives being made into something more.

That is a tall order to fill though. In several ways that’s what both the men I loved were to me, but obviously I wasn’t the same. I just hope one day to find a man who will feel the same about me. I don’t believe in a single love though. You can love many times, in many different ways over your life but telling someone that is quite different. Telling someone should be reserved for those times when you truly care for someone.

If you would be happy to get in front of a gun aimed at another person, in no small part because it would be better to be dead than it would to be alive without that person there with you, you love that person.

Rebekkah, I used to feel similarly about love and about 15 years ago, I did love a man with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind. We were, we both thought, soul mates, making each other complete and whole. When he asked me to marry him, of course I said yes and there was no doubt we’d grow old together. He wasn’t only my love, he was my best friend. We said every saccharine, romantic line and believed them utterly. He was my world, my love, the finest, most honorable, most courageous man I’d ever known, not to mention the hairiest! :wink: Then, he left me and I eventually moved back to my home state. The same month I started taking classes towards an associates degree, he called me and told me he’d never stopped loving me. I hadn’t stopped loving him either so we started a long distance romance. He’d moved to a new state where he didn’t know anyone, and I asked him repeatedly if what he was feeling wasn’t just a longing for something familiar. He repeatedly told me that wasn’t the case, that it was true love. I believed him, in part because I wanted to. I flew out to his new state at Christmas. He proposed again after a perfect setup and again there was no question that I would say anything but, “Yes.” I did, however, want to get that degree first, which would take about another 2 years. We kept things going over the phone for a long while, but then he moved back to his home state and eventually the calls stopped coming. I can’t tell you when it ended; he never let me know. There isn’t one specific day my heart broke; it was more a gradual realization that he was gone, I’d never see him again, and this “wonderful, courageous” man hadn’t had the guts to tell me when it was over. I still remember the last time I saw him at security at the airport, feeling like every lover in every love story ever written. I still have a copy of the song he played right before he proposed the second time. It’s a good song, and at first, when I heard it, my heart would melt. Now, I sometimes feel a trace of anger and regret. We promised each other no matter what happened, even if by some bizarre twist of fate we stopped loving each other, we would always be friends and I’m sure he meant it as much as I did. I don’t even have that now.

So, that was at least 5 years ago. I’d be more specific, but, as I said, he never told me when it was over and I don’t remember the last time I spoke to him. Should I have let my life come to a screeching halt and spend the rest of my life pining for him? I was in my 30’s when we ended and my family tends to live into their 80’s and 90’s. That’s a long time not to recover. I thought I’d never fall in love again. Since I didn’t believe in sex outside of marriage and I thought the lovers’ vows we’d sworn to each other were as binding as marriage since we swore them privately before God and meant every word, I’d never have sex again and I was very conflicted for a long while about whether it was appropriate for me to have had sex with him in the first place. We used to joke about how we’d had the honeymoon before the marriage.

When I first started posting here, that was how the story ended. I used to dream about him turning up on the SDMB, recognizing me and rekindling things. I wanted him back in my life for a very long time. I used todream about him turning up on my doorstep on a rented Harley, carrying a bouquet of roses telling me he loved me and had been a fool. In my dreams, I wound up back in his arms.

Well , coincidentally, about 5 years ago, things started changing. I’d been looking for my kind of people; I finally hit the motherlode (in Mensa, of all organizations! :eek: ) About a year and a half ago, one Mensan man in particular started standing out. He was shy, but funny, quick-witted, and a very interesting fellow. About a year ago, he proved he had a good, kind heart, too. He also demonstrated that he is one hell of a kisser! :cool: He knows about my past and about the way I felt to that man a decade ago. He also knows that if that man were to turn up on my doorstep, with or without a Harley or roses, he’d be told it was too late. I am in love again. Given half a chance I’ll wax saccharine, so I’ll try to keep things in check. You see, the current man, too is honorable and more courageous than he’ll admit, although not quite as hairy. He has strength and stubbornness (necessary for any man who’d going to put up with me!), but he’s also kind and suprisingly romantic. I’m gunshy about the concept of “loving forever”; I’ve been telling myself that, if it ends tomorrow, what we’ve had so far will be enough. The thing is, neither one of us wants it to end or intends for it to do so. I won’t tell him my world revolves around him. I’ve learned that’s far too heavy a burden to place on another human being. I will and have told him my life is infinitely richer and better because he is in it. This hasn’t been an easy year for me. In January, my grandmother died, and in February, I contracted the flu so badly it still managed to keep me away from good Friday services last night for the first time in a decade. I mistrust dependence and, as I pointed out to him, I could have made it through these things alone. He pointed out to me, that, while he has no doubt I could, it is nice to have friends one can rely on and trust. He is that and more and, while too much time has passed to make an decent comparison, I do love him at least as much as I did the other man all those years ago, only the love I feel now is stronger, more stable, and more mature. I would not trade him for anyone, not even all the men in Mensa, and I assure you, there are some very good ones there, even if, like this place, we do have a few jerks.

One reason my engagement to the first man I mentioned ended the first time is, while battling severe depression, I became too dependent on him. The strong, independent woman he fell in love with had vanished and he was not strong enough to be able to carry all the burden for two people all the time. Instead of being courageous, I became timid and fearful. I will not say to another human being, “You are my everything” or “I am nothing without you.” That makes them responsible for me and I want a lover, not a parent.

The first time I told the current gentleman in my live that I loved him, it was because there were no other words which could express what I was feeling. There still aren’t. I’m a poet and a wordsmith. I could write sonnets or wax eloquent and I have told him why I love him because he doesn’t realize how wonderful a person he is. The feeling isn’t one that I can’ t live without him; it’s that simply by being with him, I am happier, more content, and more joyful than I am without him.

CJ

Love borders on being a useless term, mostly because it requires a personal definition. My view of love certainly doesn’t match yours very closely. Perhaps it used to, particularly when I was a teenager in the throes of unrequited love. Odd that, as an atheist I’m going to quote the bible, but I think this is one of the most moving, beautiful and true passages I’ve come across:

I had some other stuff written, but I deleted it 'cuz I can’t top that.

I don’t think I could possibly disagree more.

I love my husband. He loves me. There is no soul ripping. I’m not even sure what soul ripping is.

Your definition of love is why I don’t read romance novels. I used to, before I realized that, at least for me, the constant pushing of “this is TWUE WUV!” ran counter to everything I’ve experienced in my life. I still like romance, and I still love a happy ending, but the idea that the only real loves are the Romeo and Juliet I’ll die without you kinds just turns me off.

If I would die without my husband, what am I? A parasite?