Let's talk about our less than satisfactory encounters with the health profession.

I’d like to tell you about my most recent appointment with a new dermatologist.

I have a small cyst on my cheek, which I’d like to have removed, so I found a doctor on my insurance company web-site and called for an appointment.

The wait to see him was a little over three months, but options are slim and it wasn’t an emergency, so I marked my calendar.

My appointment was for 2:00 pm. I was taken to the back at 2:40 and the doctor came in about 10 minutes later.

When I made the appointment, I was asked why I wanted to be seen. I told them I wanted to have a cyst removed. When the nurse came in prior to the doctor, she asked me that same question. Then the doctor asked me yet again when he came in. Then he told me that he can’t do it because it’s not covered under my insurance because it’s obviously not a cancerous cyst. Even though his website states that he does this procedure, he never offered to do it without going through my insurance and in fact, said he would refer me to another doctor up the road who “must lie or something to get it covered.” He said the last time he did such a procedure, it took him 40 minutes and he was paid $17.00.

I haven’t received the bill yet for this visit, but I’m sure it will be over $100.00. I pay $1355.00 a month for my spouse and I to be covered, but this visit will fall under our deductible of $4000.00.

I’ve had two cysts removed before the ACA and they were both covered. I’m as liberal as they come, but I hate everything about our health care system. There has to be a better way.

So, please share your less than satisfactory experiences. Maybe we can learn something.

The ACA led to my health insurance plan being cancelled. The closest plan I could get was way more expensive and covers far less. Co-pays are higher.

In addition, my insurance (Highmark) is in a pissing war with my doctors (UPMC). Things have gotten so bad that the state has issued edicts. Fuck all of them.

Are you guys near Medicare age, those prices are insane. Part of me plans to move to central America when I turn 50 to escape this evil healthcare system. Even Medicare is no sure bet, I think they of cover 62% of medical bills in retirement and that percent will likely continue to drop.

For me, I had a really bad experience while getting my blood pressure taken a few years ago. Now I can’t get it taken without having a panic attack, which adds 50 points to my blood pressure. So everytime I see a doctor s/he acts like I’m dying because I have anxiety. I’ve lost so much respect for them that I pretty much avoid medical care now. I have no idea what I’m going to do if something goes wrong and I need actual care.

Ultimately there are several issues, all of which are unrelated, that are conspiring to irritate you.

  1. The doctor was hard to get into and late when you were actually there. Big deal. It’s not a systemic failure of the healthcare system; but just a guy who probably got to talking with a patient, or ran late for some reason. That sort of thing has gone on as long as there have been doctors.

  2. He won’t do the surgery for you, as it’s not covered. Seems like a reasonable way to behave for a doctor. Better that he refuse, than do it, and then tell you later that you’re on the hook for the whole procedure.

  3. He’s charging you a visit fee, which falls under your deductible. Do you expect him to just eat that time that he spent with you, that he could have otherwise seen a paying patient?

  4. You’re annoyed that you have a high deductible and relatively high premiums, and that you have to pay a visit fee at all. That’s how YOUR policy is set up- if you don’t like it, get a different one. I think I’d be glad that the visit fee is likely the insurance-company negotiated rate, and not the “random uninsured slob off the street” fee, which is likely even higher.

  5. You’re annoyed that he didn’t offer to remove the cyst without insurance. Did YOU ask about that? 99% of his patients probably don’t even consider that option, so he probably didn’t bring it up. Not his fault that you didn’t explore all YOUR options.

I just don’t see the outrage here. I’m sure without any problems like an infection or cancer, cysts are just considered a cosmetic issue, and insurance companies aren’t generally in the business of making people prettier, if it doesn’t also make them healthier. The rest of it is just the way health care has always worked in the US, ACA or not. The only part where there’s some latitude for bitching in my book is that astronomically high monthly premium combined with a high deductible. Something seems really off there- that combination seems a bit high.

I hope it’s OK to say that you need Universal Health Care.

Here (in the UK), I would expect to see my Doctor within 3-5 days for a non-emergency.
I’ve prepaid for the treatment through taxes, so my only cost would be if I needed a prescription.

Vote for a political party that will help bring in a fair and value-for-money health system!

True health reform is not realistic on the national level in the US anytime soon. Maybe, if we are lucky, a few states will pass meaningful health reform and it will start a trend, but I don’t have a lot of hope.

We spend twice as much as the UK for a brutal, stress filled system and a lower life expectancy. Truly fixing that will require a lot of effort and taking on a lot of radical reform that pisses off a lot of people.

I sympathize with the OP’s situation. The system as currently set up (and I don’t think the ACA is to blame) doesn’t generally provide for insurance reimbursement for removal of “cosmetic” skin lesions. For example.

There are docs who get around this restriction by citing “worrisome” features of such common lesions, such as moles with an “atypical” appearance (a judgment call that I suspect gets stretched to accomodate patients’ desires). Patients might complain of pain or irritation from these types of lesions which could be regarded as justification for removal. However, docs could get into trouble for billing on false grounds (the new clinical ICD-10 codes for billing do not allow for procedures to be done for patient “convenience”).

I don’t know if things are much more liberal on this score in other countries.

My copay for a specialist is $155.00. When I saw my cardiologist for a one year follow up after a coronary artery stent, the receptionist was puzzled by my high copay. She thought she was entering data incorrectly. A coworker explained to her that it was my insurance, and the copay was for real.

Turns out all that happened during the visit was a quick listen to my heart and a review of my meds. Five minutes tops. I should have skipped the whole thing.

I found out later that their fee for an uninsured patient was less than my insurance copay.

OP, call your insurance company and ask them if they’d cover removing a non-cancerous cyst. If they say yes, I’d fight the bill, or at least call the Office Manager and let them know that the doctor turned you away for that reason and you’d like to be seen again to have the cyst removed but not be charged for the first appointment.

IMO, I’d be very, very surprised if the doctor knew all the ins and outs of every single insurance plan, there’s hundreds, maybe thousands of them out there. The only way he could know is if he had his billing department pre-authorize the procedure before you got there. In that case ISTM they owed you a call before the visit to let you know your options (covered if it’s cancerous, not covered if it’s benign) so you could chose to cancel the appointment and not be stuck with the $150 fee for the doctor to spend 15 seconds looking at it and walking back out because he decided it’s non-cancerous. BTW (and I really don’t know), cysts that a dermatologist would remove always/usually non-cancerous? Again, if that’s the case, they really should have given you a heads up that he probably won’t remove it.

I had a doc that I left mostly because he turned every single appointment into two appointments. Every time I came in he’d say ‘why don’t you give it two weeks and if it’s still bothering you, make another appointment and we’ll go from there’. Finally, I got wise to this and said ‘well, you always say this, so this time I waited to weeks, I’ve barely been able to turn my neck for almost a month now’. Wanna guess what he said, "come back in two weeks if it still hurts’.

I was so thrilled when the first time I saw my new doc for some random back pain. As I was leaving I said 'so do you want me to come back in a few weeks if it’s still bugging me?" and he said ‘no, that would be a waste of money, here’s a script for some radiology, if it’s still hurting in two weeks go and get the imaging done and I’ll call you when I get the results’. Anytime I see him for pain, that’s how it usually is. I may or may not get meds, but instead of ‘come see me’ it’s here’s a script for PT or a CT or and Ultrasound etc. I like him a lot better.

Back to the OP, I’d call your insurance company and ask if they cover it. If they don’t, I’d call some offices and ask how much they charge to remove a cyst if it’s not covered. Maybe it’s affordable.

I’m 59 and my spouse is 58, so I expect my premium to be high, but this is too high. I don’t even have dental or vision. This is a silver plan on the Covered California site.

Bup, I don’t think I came across as outraged. I didn’t even choose the pit. But I still think it’s okay to look at a less than satisfactory experience.

Why do I have to tell three people three different times what I’m there for. Write it down or something. I know it’s minor, but it still feels like I’m not being listened to.

And if you know ahead of time that you don’t do that sort of procedure because it pays so little, why let me come in at all? It feels like a money grab.

My biggest gripe though is that I thought the ACA was supposed to make things better. I’ve had this done pre ACA, like I said, and it was just as cosmetic then as it is now. So it doesn’t feel better to me.

And getting through to a human being is like pulling teeth, but I will try to give my insurance company a call.

I have rheumatoid arthritis for which I see a specialist. Prior to the healthcare reform, I made one appointment, every 3 months, at which time I received two injections and got a few minutes to discuss with my doctor what was going on with my management of my disease. For this, I paid $40 for the visit and, after the yearly deductible, 20% of the cost of the injections.

Since healthcare reform, I now have to make 3 separate appointments every 3 months - one for each shot and one for the 15 minute consultation. So now I pay $120 quarterly for the same services as before and have the annoyance of making the fairly sizeable commute to and from the doctor on three separate days.

I’ve gained absolutely nothing and my cost has more than trebled, if you add in the cost of driving to and from the additional appointments and of the time away from work.

Quit my last doctor because of two things;

“We’ll give you drug A to combat X, and if you have side effect Y, we’ll give you drug B for that, and if you have side effects from B, we’ll give you drug C”

OH FUCK NO. I’m not taking three motherfucking drugs, two of which are only to combat the side effects of the others. If I’d have listened to this guy, I would now be taking about 10-12 different meds, several just to combat side effects of the others.

Fucker weighed more than I do and put me on diet pills to lose weight. From which I then suffered immediate and very frightening** Phen Rage**. Threw the pills away. Lectured me about it a lot more, seriously pissing me off.

Then the last straw, 8:40 appointment when their doors don’t open until 8:30, so I’m only his second appointment of the day. Fucker strolls in the room about 9:30-ish, no apology.

Next appointment was with a different doctor at a different place.

The ACA is a sop to the mostly-for-profit insurance industry, and I hope it makes everyone angry enough to accept single-payor, or at least Medicare for All with a side of private insurance add-ons for those who want to buy them.

That said, most complaints have nothing to do with the ACA. Insurance companies love to blame the ACA for changes, but really they’ve decided to do these things because they now have to cover everyone who applies and pays, and they want to keep their gold-plated washroom fixtures. So now they find creative ways to wring more money out of patients. That’s not the fault of the ACA – that’s the insurance companies deciding that they exist to make money, not look after medical care needed by human beings.
not what you’d expect, I hear what you’re saying. Dermatologists are a pain. I have to remind mine annually that she needs to be more vigilant than she might be with other 40-somethings because I lived for 30 years in Florida, and for 15 of those years couldn’t use any of the sunscreens on the market because they all gave me eczema. So I was blonde, blue-eyed, fair-skinned, and totally unprotected from the sun.

Anyway, AFAIK your issues with the physician really haven’t anything to do with the ACA. It has to do a) the reimbursement prices set by your insurance company; b) your insurance company’s regulations around dermatology procedures; and c) with the physician in question and how he wants to run his business.

First the doctor said removal of the cyst was not covered, then he said last time he removed one, he was paid $17. Which is it?

If the first, the doctor should charge for a consult, and you would pay your copay. If the doc is participating, most insurers don’t make you shell out for deductible.

If it’s the second issue – doc didn’t like the reimbursement amount – then that’s his issue, and he may have violated the terms of participation by refusing to treat you because he didn’t like the money he’s paid.

I’d also be interested to know why it would take him 40 minutes to remove a simple cyst, but I guess we can’t be sure without seeing it. Is it wrapped around a rib or your nipple or something? :open_mouth:

If it were me, I would call the insurance company to complain about the doctor. Something ain’t right here, but the problem isn’t the ACA.

Physicians and insurance companies love to blame the government, but boy, they all take that government cash.

I was actually just reviewing some records in which a doctor requested authorization of a topical chemotherapy cream for treatment of an actinic keratosis, and it was denied. I was under the impression that AK was pretty likely to turn malignant so I was surprised at the denial.

Since I have had health insurance (maybe 20 years now?) they have cancelled my plan EVERY YEAR and told me I must choose either a more expensive plan or one with less coverage/more deductible. There may have been one year when I was able to keep the same plan. This was long before the ACA. Insurance companies are to blame for this, not the ACA.

Exactly.

Hmm, maybe then we need to regulate them like Utilities, operating for the “Public Good”.

not what you’d expect: just as a fyi the Covered California health care is NOT associated with the ACA it is run soley through the state of California.
Having worked at a call center for the ACA we could not assist anyone in California,they were referred to the state site.

The ACA allows states to set up their own health care exchanges, which is what California did. Citizens of states with their own exchanges are not allowed to use the federal exchange. That doesn’t mean the state exchanges aren’t associated with the ACA. The structure of the programs offered under state exchanges is regulated by the ACA.

I don’t know about coverage guidelines for the use of the cream, but Medicare stopped paying for surgical removal of AK in the late 90s or early 2000s.

Struck me as a bit of an iffy cost savings.

As a nurse, I’m pretty up-to-date on the ins-and-outs of getting care, what is covered, how to access services, etc., but I also see it is very frustrating for the average person to navigate the system.

I’ve had two family members qualify for “Obamacare” (that’s what they call it), and both of them have had troubles getting appointments and services. Both have spent years without health insurance or health care and seem overwhelmed at the process. Most of the conflict occurs because they do not have much experience navigating the health care systems or understanding of how things work. The second source of conflict has been the particular doctors offices they have attended.

One family member went to a large, multi-service clinic. She had her initial office visit coded wrong and got sent some bills for the visit which totally freaked her out. It was an easily resolved issue but she just really didn’t know what to do or where to start. All she understood was that her “free” visit wasn’t free and she felt cheated/lied to/ripped off.

She also needed to make a follow up visit to evaluate a potential medical problem (a questionable mammogram that needed an ultrasound) that had a cost attached. Instead of keeping the appointment and paying the co-pay, she spent weeks trying to circumnavigate the system and find charity services with no charge. When she arrived at this charitable service on her appointment date, she didn’t have a referral, order or prescription for the service and so was unable to get the ultrasound done. Her understanding of this is complication is “They won’t let me get this done anywhere else for free because they just want the money.” Of course, she never informed the doctor that she was looking for a free or low cost service outside of the clinic.

Really, I guess she just thought her “Obamacare” somehow meant she would not have to pay for medical care. It does not mean that. It is health insurance like any other health insurance with deductibles, co-pays, a network of providers, etc.

The other family member went to a small, private practice where he has gotten terrible service. This office also didn’t bill correctly which got sorted out. He now has a new diagnosis of diabetes and prescriptions for two oral meds and a glucometer. But he has been unable to fill his prescriptions due the high cost of the prescribed items. The pharmacy was very helpful in making alternative suggestions for things covered by his plan and he followed up with the insurance provider to confirm the coverage and prices, but both he and the pharmacy have made several calls to the doctors office over the course of three weeks to get approval and prescriptions for the alternative items and the doc just won’t follow through or respond. I believe he is going to call the insurance company and ask to change his primary care doc today.

not what you’d expect’s insurance cost seems quite high to me (and there are likely reasons for that, such as not what you’d expect covering the whole cost himself without an employer contribution).

My insurance is about $350 a month for a family of four. However, what I pay is not what insurance costs. My insurance is actually about $18,000 a year. My employer pays a large portion of that for me.

Regarding not what you’d expect’s dermatology visit: I’ve always found that derm visit do take a while. It seems they are in high demand and many of their services aren’t covered. They also seem to like to work limited hours.

The refusal of the dermatologist to remove a benign and cosmetic cyst is standard. I’m kinda surprised to hear that you were able to have this done in the past as a covered benefit. Perhaps you had a better plan that covered this kind of procedure or had a doc that knew how to get such a thing covered (as Jackmannii suggested). I recall that in the past a doc might have a patient come to the office a couple of times to build a case for coverage of a questionable procedure. For example, a woman might come to the derm a couple of times to build a case for a mole(s) or skin tag(s) that gets irritated by a brassier or clothing. Or a PCP might build a case for a breast reduction if it can be shown that the excess tissue causes medical problems such as back or skin injury.

The derm could also offer a good price for the removal of a non-covered lesion if the patient is willing to pay out-of-pocket but may have some kind of restriction regarding the offer. Perhaps he or she cannot make the offer during a covered visit for fear of being seen as steering the patient to cash services inappropriately. Maybe a call back for a cash price would be in order here.

Finally, there are as many different kinds of dermatologists as there are people. Some just want to treat acne on a M-F, 9-4:30 schedule. Others are only interested in aesthetics and focus on laser cosmetic skin treatments and chemical peels. Still others are very into the huge varieties of skin disease and complex-skin-condition diagnosis and treatment. Perhaps you just didn’t find the right clinic for you.