Letter To The Dope

The BBQ Pit
1

Dopers,

After serious consideration, I have decided to end my time here with the Straight Dope. I may loiter now and then, but other than that I think it is time for me to move on.

When I first found the SDMB, I was amazed at the topics being discussed and the quality of discourse. I felt like there was something to learn in every thread from someone with true insight on the matter being discussed. I grew a lot from these discussions, as the exposure to such a broad range of perspectives will tend to do for someone who is still maturing intellectually.

The past couple years, I have been in-and-out of the forum as the general devolvement into tribal politics (exacerbated by the election of Trump) seems to leave little room for any discussion on pure intellectual grounds. But I have also noticed something far more odious. The board has become increasingly insular and incapable of entertaining viewpoints that run contrary to the general consensus. This is a leftwing discussion board, and I am center-right. I voted for Obama in ’08, Romney in ’12, and Hillary in ’16. I am not the alt-right. I vote my conscience and deliberate seriously on the views that I hold and the beliefs that I espouse. I like debating with people who hold views different than mine. I actively sought such debate on this board for several years because I felt that, despite our disagreements, we could discuss in good faith and learn a little more about the way others view the world.

I no longer feel that such good faith exists, at least among those who more regularly frequent the Dope. What I see now are the roaming morality militias comprised of a handful of posters who feel compelled to enforce the correct group-think, and once they have decided you are the enemy, the very notion of honest debate is rendered incomprehensible. As though my disagreement could only be the result of hatred and bigotry. And they are not hesitant to label me with these pejoratives.

It is a great shame that the forum I once considered the paragon of intellectual discourse has entrenched itself into a bubble where outside thought is seen as threatening. It is not easy voicing conservative viewpoints on this board, given the simple demographics. But I used to relish the challenge and look forward to the counter-arguments that such bright people could throw at me. Now, frankly, I no longer see the point. I don’t think the regulars here have any interest in hearing conservative views nor in rebutting them honestly. If we encounter an impasse, they see fit to ascribe ulterior motives to me and the inevitable “asshole” or “bigot” or “troll” epithets spew forth.

I hope this trend of increasingly polarized discourse comes to an end. It started with Obama and has hit its full furor in the “fake news” age of Trump. Maybe it was just a dream that couldn’t last. Actually - fuck that - you guys fell for it and let it happen to your board. To your own detriment. If you truly believe everyone who disagrees with you is just an alt-right troll, you need to recalibrate your perspective, or else this board will lose all vestiges of openness and fully devolve into the echo chamber I sincerely fear it is headed toward.

My final words: thank you. I still have hope for a return to the golden age. For us as Dopers, and for us as a society.

Sincerely,
Stringbean

2

As the person who called you an “asshole” I may have misjudged. May. I’ve been meaning to revisit that but , it will take some time.

Otherwise I agree 100% with your posting.

3

Quote function fucked:
Stringbean says in OP:
“…I have decided to end my time here with the Straight Dope. I may loiter now and then, …”
It sounds like commitment isn’t your thing.

4

What you describe sounds like a terrible place, but it has very little in common with this board. Who has called you alt right?

As for asshole, so what? Sometimes you might have acted like an asshole, and some posters called you out on it. Why is that so terrible, or hard to believe?

5

I haven’t followed you around, don’t really know you other than to recall you coming across as an asshole a couple of times, but then, I freely admit I am an asshole.

Here’s the thing, looking at your recent posts just at the search level. You spend too much time defending yourself and justifying yourself. You don’t have to. Frankly, the more time you spend defending yourself against every criticism, the more you feel put upon, frustrated and angry, and the more criticism you will face. I know this from personal experience, and believe me, it was a hard lesson to learn, that the best defense is very often no defense.

I don’t think this board is an echo chamber, but I will admit that a lot of us liberals are very vocal in defending our points of view. It is an unfortunate fact that many people on the right argue from positions that require a lot of faith and not much science, along with what is all too often a somewhat offensive style. That Trumpian ‘Fuck your feelings’ that says they don’t care how anyone else feels, while simultaneously being very invested in their own feelings. If someone comes at me that way, to my eyes they’ve discredited themselves at the start and shown me they’re not someone who will converse with me productively. Clothy is a good example of this. Insulting and offensive, but easily offended. How does that result in anything positive?

But yes, there are always people who sit back and wait for someone to make one mistake, to be anything less than perfect, then pounce on it. Fuck those people. They aren’t perfect, no one made them god, and if they want to sit around acting high and mighty and contribute nothing but looking down at us imperfect folk, then they can and should be ignored. Hell, I have at least one person on my ignore list (current 9 members) for just that reason. I never saw any useful dialog out of that person, only “oh my god you’re a terrible person for (insert issue here).”

6

I kind of agree with some of what you’re saying, but I think there’s additional factors in play. The quality of the counter-arguments offered by Trump supporters aren’t very good or intellectually interesting because frankly there’s no real defense for him. Everything about him that wasn’t pretty clear before he was elected has become blindingly obvious afterwards, not just about Trump but the GOP. I think there’s a reasonable way to talk about conservative and liberal issues but these get sidetracked to Trump and the GOP. What can you do, he’s PotUS and they’re in power so it is unfortunately somewhat inevitable? Which is a shame because Trump and the GOP don’t represent conservatism in any real way. They’ve gone off the deep in pursuit of power. Based on the sincerity of your post, I’m sorry to see you go even though I don’t think we ever really conversed.

7

Seriously.

8

Message boards everywhere are getting to be the same way. The rise of other forms of social media have drawn people away, leaving a core group of “regulars” which leads to said insularity. Plus everyone knows how to push each other’s buttons which leads to the increase in conflict.

9

You know what people who actually want to quit something do? Actually just quit doing it.
However, OP is just attention and sympathy-seeking b/c we’ve been mean enough to disagree w/ him w/o apologizing. How dare we not see how right and perfect he is? He has to make us feel bad for doing so in order for us to see the error of our terrible ways.

10

I’d agree that politically, the board is more hive-minded now than in years past. If one only and solely uses this board for political debate, then I can see how one might feel that unpopular views are unfairly attacked and be less inclined to visit here. Personally, I don’t even take part in a majority of the political threads on this board, just because it’s fucking pointless. It’s like debating religion. Nobody’s-mind-gets-changed-ever. It’s pointless repetition, ad nauseum.

Luckily, I find enjoyment in a greater variety of discussions than simply political ones alone. And I learned a long time ago that everybody else here can only judge you by the language you use here to engage with others. If that language is not an accurate reflection of the real life “you”, there is only one person to blame for that.

11

I hear that “this place is a hivemind of lefties” on several boards. Perhaps all of them have become more left leaning, if only because many people on the right are incapable of rationally defending their positions, and moderated boards tend not to tolerate the offensive and irrational style of all too many on the right these days.

So those people move on to places where they can argue without fact, or they get moved on to places where they can argue without tact.

12

It’s hard out there for a Stringbean.

I can’t say I know much about the OP other than a general sense that he’s conservative and many of the liberal posters here don’t like him. Can’t say I’ve read or remember reading any of his posts.

But it’s definitely not easy for the conservatives on this MB, and not just because there seem to be a number of prolific idiot conservatives posting here these days. It’s been like that for a long time, and Trump has made it worse, even for the conservatives who don’t support him. If you hate Trump with the fury of 10,000 suns, there’ll be posters here who will dump on you for not hating him with the fury of 100,000 suns.

The thing is, though, humans hate being unfairly treated. Hell, we now know that pretty much all primates do, so this is a very deep and ancient emotion. I think what gets to a lot of the conservatives here is that you can be an asshole lefty on this MB and rarely get dumped on. But if you’re a righty who is an asshole, or even just a bit abrasive, you’ll be dumped on by the lefties here like nobody’s business.

I don’t know where the OP sits on the asshole <----> non-asshole spectrum, so maybe he deserves the dumping on he gets. And I have to agree with the poster upthread who said: If you want to leave, just fucking leave. The OP comes off as pretty whiney and so not particularly sympathetic.

Having said all that, my advice to the OP if he wants to stay is just ignore the people you think who are dumping on you. Don’t respond to their posts. Put them on ignore if you have to. There are enough honest and good-willed people here that you can debate and exchange ideas with, so just fuck all the rest of them. We’re all just anonymous posters on a MB. Don’t let it get to you (we probably all do a least sometimes, but let those times be the exception, not the norm).

13

Then there’s the pedants who will argue about the median value of a sun. :smiley:

14

That would be mean.

15

Bye, Felicia!

16

Yeah, who is this guy, Green Bean, to be bitching about this MB anyway?

17

shrug I thought he quit months ago. Didn’t miss him then, don’t now, won’t even if he manages to fully quit. We have enough right-wing assholes without him.

18

snort

19

Why must you torture our legume friend? You know she’s going to come up on you w/ a knife one of these days and none of us will move to stop her.

20

As a non-american here is what I don’t get, why do conservatives feel they have to defend Trump?

Is conservatism a belief you have or is it a team you belong to?