In the 2004 election a lot of states passed anti gay measures and I know many gay people told me they felt like unwanted strangers in their own homeland the day after the election. Like their friends and neighbors viewed them as inferiors to brush aside and reject.
I read this article today, and it kind of discussed the same thing for what many people are feeling today. We realize we are not the America we secretly hoped we were. This election wasn’t about democrat or republican, it was about how we as a nation feel about diversity, respect for the weak, morality, competence, etc.
How did you cope? Did you ever get better? How does 2004 compare to 2016 in how it made you feel about yourself, your country and other citizens?
2016? I dunno. I know that intolerance of minorities, women’s equality, non-christians and the poor and otherwise disadvantaged has been legitimized now, and I will keep a careful low profile because bigots and haters have been empowered, but I’ve always kinda done that anyway. You can see it already right here on the board. Conservatives are coming out and saying things like, “you liberals better have learned your lesson. Don’t call us racists and sexists and homophobes and xenophobes. Time for some pay back.”
I remember the 2004 election very well. I remember driving through Amish country, and seeing all the homophobic yard signs on almost every lawn. “Protect Our Children” my ass. So much for the peaceful, quaint Luddites who keep to themselves, plowing their fields and churning butter. They are now part of Trump Nation.
But I also remember how it was back in the '60s, when just being in a gay bar was an invitation to get arrested, beaten up, raped, possibly losing your family, your home, your job, and sometimes much worse. I don’t think we’re going back to that, even this year, even with a Supreme Court that may nullify my marriage.
Like Obama said, and I paraphrase, political progress doesn’t move in a straight line, it zig-zags. There is progress, and there are setbacks. We’re in for some setbacks. This is NOT a time to “keep a careful low profile.”
Worse, I think. The wave of homophobia that swept the country in 2004 didn’t really change too much for gay people. It wasn’t like gay marriage had been legal in any of those states before the new bans came in. We knew the people in those states were vehemently bigoted against gay people. It sucked having exact numbers on how many people hated us, but it wasn’t exactly a surprise. It wasn’t a setback, exactly, so much as a sober realization of just how much more ground we had to take.
This time, we’re looking at actually loosing gains. Trump is poised to actually strip rights and protections away from us. My one hope here is that Trump himself doesn’t seem care about gay people one way or the other, so is unlikely to specifically target us. But much of his base is made up of really deeply shitty people, and I don’t think Trump would much mind throwing LGBT people under the bus if it gets him a few more cloying accolades from his coterie of troglodytes.
That said, there’s only so much he can do. Gay marriage is at risk at the federal level, because there’s no way Trump cares enough to put in the work to get conservative justices who aren’t also homophobes. How much further it goes really depends on how homophobic congress wants to get, and they’ve backed off it a lot since 2004. If they send a new DOMA to Trump’s desk, there’s no way he’s going to veto it, but I think the country’s demographics, even among conservatives, have changed enough to make that a non-starter.
I’m not particularly worried about same-sex marriage being lost. We’ve had a few years of it and fire has not rained down on the country so far. I’m much more worried about Roe v. Wade being overturned, for example, as that issue seems to drive people much harder than same-sex marriage. The people who hate abortion really hate it more than almost anything else. I also fear the increasing role that a few versions of Christianity are taking in the public life of our nation, because that is a kind of ignorance that is hard to fight.
Also, I try not to take these things personally. The people who want me to crawl back into my closet are people who don’t know me.
I know I live in a bubble (San Francisco voted something like 84% for Clinton) and I don’t travel around the country much. Nevertheless, I’m willing to wait and see what happens before I get upset.
2004 was worse. Bush won reelection with the help of same sex marriage bans being voted on in several states, including Ohio. Bush came from Midland, Texas, had worked in baseball, and was the governor of Texas, none of which are loaded with LGBT people. Trump comes from NYC, an entertainment background and has had far more exposure to LGBT people. I really don’t think the Supreme Court wants to take up same sex marriage again, they’ve had two high profile cases in the last 4 years on that issue and it has been decided.
Here’s how I see it. Politically correct speech is at risk. Homesexual people are not. I can’t see anything rolled back that has already happened, politicians will only fight gay marriage at risk of their re-election.
Politicians don’t have to fight it. Once there is a conservative majority on the Supreme Court, anti-SSM advocates just have to find a good case to challenge the previous decision (which, according to **Bricker **and other legal experts on this board is legally somewhat shaky anyway) and let the law take its course.
If that decision is overturned, I presume the anti-SSM state laws that were in place before will return to being effective. It remains to be seen whether, for example, the IRS and other federal agencies would continue to recognize marriages that are legal at the state level.
I’m not saying that I think all this will necessarily happen, but the only part that Trump and the Senate will play is in selecting the Supreme Court justice(s) to fill empty seats. That won’t happen right away, since putting a conservative in the current vacancy leaves the 5-4 majority in favor of the status quo (and they will be hard put to find a more poisonous conservative than the one being replaced). They’ll have to wait for one of the liberals or swing votes to retire or die. I shall be sending positive healing thoughts their way for at least the next 4 years.
My main concern is more about the VP-elect than Trump himself, with Mike Pence having apparently supported gay conversion therapy in the past. Politifact lists it as “true”, while Snopes lists it as “mixture”. This would appear to be because Snopes is using a narrower definition of gay conversion therapy, while at the same time responding to a broader accusation.
On the one hand, I agree with people who say a lot of the horrible policies both candidates have supported will never happen. I’m not as willing to let it slide, though. Sure, Trump won’t deport all Mexicans and ban all muslims, and Pence won’t force gay people to renounce their homosexuality. But they have validated all those people who hold those views and do want them implemented.
“The VP thinks homosexuality is a choice? Well, I guess that makes my anti-gay propaganda OK then”
This is about how I see it. The tide has turned, especially with young people, including young republicans and conservatives. Being gay is simply no big deal to just about anyone under 30, and I don’t see that changing. Yeah, there are some older, religious conservatives who still make a big deal about it, but their rants don’t gain much traction with most people. Abortion, on the other hand, is a big deal to people on both sides of the issue, and seems to be far more important than gay marriage.
I don’t get the impression that Trump is religious, let alone fundamentalist or anti-gay. He had to pander a bit to the religious right for votes, but I don’t see much evidence that he’s anti-gay at all.
Yeah, Pence is worrisome. While he seems serious, prepared and unflappable (all things Trump is not), he is also a religious zealot with pretty extreme views. Again, Trump seemed to pick him to pick up the religious right vote, but it remains to be seen how much influence or sway he will have as VP. I would guess he might help with political maneuvering, since he has experience as governor and in congress, but have no idea regarding social issues. I could be wrong, but I don’t see Trump as all that concerned about gay rights issues. Given the circles he travels in, he has to know a lot of gay people.
As a white gay male who just got married, I personally don’t feel panicked about that aspect. Frankly, I don’t see the tide shifting back on that front. Too many Americans have come to peace about same-sex marriage and realized it wasn’t as big of a deal as it was made out to be.
That said, I feel that we as a country were just about to start making inroads regarding the T of the GLBT contingent. That is where my concern solely in regards to GLBT lies.
Then again, this election defied all of my preconceived notions of what was going on in this country. I’d like to say X is true, but I also have quickly learned that these were assumptions of decency that just don’t exist.
Exactly. Trump doesn’t worry me too much in this regard. Pence, on the other hand, scares the fuck out of me. And considering how unstable and volatile Trump has been in the past, I’m also worried about how much power Pence will be wielding behind the scenes.
In 2004 I wasn’t sure about my sexuality and now I am. Internally I feel like Cyrus trashing his office in *Scandal *when the super-evangelical VP was sworn in as acting president.
And if there’s one thing we’ve learned about Trump, it’s that he always pays his debts, right?
Anyway, I wouldn’t look to Thiel as any great defender of gay rights. Yeah, he’s gay himself, but he’s never been particularly notable for his involvement in the gay rights movement. Also, he’s just generally a terrible human being on his own terms.
I give Obergefell about a 50% chance of surviving a Trump presidency. Doesn’t matter what the public support for gay marriage is, it just needs one lawsuit and two more conservative justices on the bench, and it’s overturned. I think most states will move pretty quickly to enact their own marriage laws, and I don’t think there’s enough support to bring back DOMA, but a lot of states still have marriage bans in their constitutions, and those are going to stick around.
What’s more worrying is the possibility of a federal “religious freedom” law that provides a loophole for discriminating against gays so long as it’s for religious reasons. Which would override state protections, and basically make it okay to openly discriminate against us anywhere in the nation, even in states that currently have strong anti-discrimination protections.
All in all, I’m much more concerned with Pence than Trump. He’s going to be a much more activist VP than even Cheney was, especially on LGBT issues. And if Huckabee and Blackwell are on the team, it doesn’t bode well for our rights. Or women’s reproductive rights either.