Libertarian: (about love...)

In My Humble Opinion
1

Let me start by saying I first came to the SDMB as a rock-solid Young Earth Creationist-Devout-Traditionalist- Pro-Life -Roman Catholic. Since then, I have learned so much from the posters such as **Diogenes the Cynic, Polycarp, Mangetout, MEBuckner, and you ** Libertarian, and I have consciously changed my perspective to understand others arguments. I thank all of the posters for opening my (what I had thought was already an open) mind.

But you Libertarian- you intrigue me. I am still a devout Roman Catholic (and I don’t see that changing) but I am intrigued by your God is Love philosophy. I want to adopt it but I need some more clarifications before I can embrace it. Don’t worry, I am not viewing you as a religious leader… more like a mentor. I have not yet seen a post by you that has disgusted me or offended me or led me to stay away from you. I wanted to email you to speak personally, but your profile or my settings wouldn’t let me use the link to email you.

So, I decided to post these questions here to get answers directly from you… and since I cannot remember them all at once I can ask more questions later. So here are some I do remember:[ul]
[li]Maybe it is of my conventional / conditioned idea of God, but I don’t quite understand how God is an emotion?.. Is saying “God is Love” and “Love is the conduit of goodness” mean God is not a “person” but a state of being? (Am I on the right track?) I would like you to clarify your statement of “God is Love” more thoroughly than you have in other posts (if possible), and in as simplest terms (examples) as possible…[]Since I do believe the Bible to be true (accepting Most of Genesis to be a children’s story and not literal) could you provide as many scripture references to this philosophy as you can? Just the Book Chapter:Verse is sufficient, I’ll look it up.[]Keeping along the lines of IMHO, and eventhough what you have taught me on these boards isn’t a specific religion, most (if not all) religions usually take a stance on abortion, capital punishment, etc. What is your belief of these issues? [sub]I am not trying to emulate you, just learn more about your philosophy[/sub][]When I think of God I think of a Divine Person. I hate when you and others say “Sky Pixie” but if that means a being watching over all creation then yeah I guess that’s my view. So I can see a Divine Person creating the universe and, if our current evidences for evolution are true, guiding the universe through evolution. But how could your view of God=Love do that? I may just be fixed on what I have been taught and can’t understand how that is possible so I need you to break it down kindergarten style for me.[]And along the same lines, how could Love answer my prayers? I mean, I can see how God how I view him could, but not how you view him.[/ul][/li]
I am sure I have more questions… I will get back here to ask them when I remember them. Thanks Lib…

[sub]*I put this in IMHO because of my opinion of Libertarian being the most influential member to me on the boards[/sub]

2

I am sure Lib will be around soon. And having been on the boards almost two years I have much respect for the guy.

I was born and raised RC and left the church when I got confirmed because I do not agree with most of the doctrines.

I am in my thirties now and have lived my life with my wife thinking God is all around us and completely encircles our lives in the form of love. Recently I have gone to a Unitarian church with Mrs.Phlosphr and they tend to embrace that philosophy quite well.
Now I have never thought of Libertarian as a religious leader, I do not believe I have even read that here before. However I bet he is a hell of an Orator. He’s also crystal clear with his writing and he truely can paint a virtual water color through words.
He’s certainly not like David Koresh, but I bet given the chance he would be a wondrous teacher, if he is not already in the field.

3

I am RC. Devout, go to Mass on Sundays and usually daily Mass 1-2/week. I am pro-life (of course). I am not a creationist, nor does the Church espouse that view. I don’t have a problem with the concept of God = love, and this view is accepted by the Church. Perhaps you should read some books on moral theology. If you accept the bible as (mostly) literal truth (which I don’t, BTW. Much of the bible is a written account of oral tradition) then you accept the passage “God is love. Whoever abides in love, abides in God, and God in him.” This is also Catholic theology. I personally am afronted when people use terms like “sky pixie”. To me, that shows a real lack of respect for the beliefs of others, including me. I may think that the beliefs of some others are incorrect or even downright silly, but I don’t tell them that. I don’t belittle their beliefs with snide comments.

StG

4

Me-too-Mars chiming in -

Lib, as I have deconverted from fundamentalist Christianity, your POV has been especially helpful in forming a new ethic and basis for morality. I’ve thanked you before, elsewhere, but dont see the harm in doing so again.

This is a nice thread, 0rbytal - thanks. Oh, and I know he won’t mind me pointing this out, but trust me, in his 10000+ posts, Lib has blown a gasket a time or two. He’ll be the first to admit that his philosophy is a work in progress vis a vis his own life :slight_smile:

5

steps out on swaying wooden plank

Isn’t that classic** Lib**? If ever such a thing should exist?

6

Orbytal

I’ll do my best to answer your questions. I’m grateful that you don’t view me as a “religious leader”! :slight_smile: (Don’t be surprised if this gets moved, though.)

The kind of love that God is is not an emotion. Emotions come from chemical and electrical activity in the brain. God is not a product of the brain.

No, not really. Saying that God is Love and love is the counduit of goodness means that God is the source and origin of goodness, and the means by which goodness is expressed.

Goodness is an attribute of God. It describes His nature, that of moral excellence. It is because He exists that goodness can be shared with and among others, like ourselves.

When we share goodness among one another, we are like God.

Remember that we are created in His image and in His likeness. This does not mean that God has arms and legs, but that we are spirit like Him. Jesus taught that God is spirit, and that He gives birth to our spirits.

“Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.” — John 3:6

“God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.” — John 4:24

“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life.” — John 6:63

So, if we call God a person, we have to keep in mind that we mean something other than what we normally mean by “person”. He is not made of atoms, but of spirit, which is essential existence. God is not a state of being; He is the Supreme Being.

Think of goodness as water. If water is to flow from one place to another, there needs to be a river or stream — some means of conveying the water. God is the River of Goodness.

Think of goodness as electricity. If electricity is to flow, there needs to be a wire or conduit that will carry the energy. God is the Counduit of Goodness.

You’ve heard the hymn, “Praise God from whom all blessings flow.” If God did not love, all blessings would remain within Himself like stagnant water or static electricity.

“Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.” — 1 John 4:8

“God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him.” — 1 John 4:16

And, of course, Jesus gave us this command over and over:

“A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.” — John 13:34

“My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you.” — John 15:12

“This is my command: Love each other.” — John 15:17

…and so on.

My belief is that they are piddly shit. :slight_smile:

Politicians, both in religion and government, use these issues as a means to galvanize and manipulate people. If a man loves, whatever he does will be right and good. If he does not love, then his every deed is a sin. Sin is the opposite of love — love is the sharing of God’s goodness; sin is the severence of God’s goodness.

I don’t recall ever saying that God is a “Sky Pixie”. I have, however, protested when people equate the Love Everlasting to some sort of god of thunder who towers above earth and throws terrible bolts of lightning at people who don’t obey its rules.

The notion of a god that cowers behind a pretense of love, just waiting for the right moment to swoop down and conquer the earthly kings and judges so it can take their place, is pitiful to me. What a puny god, whose whole eternal plan is to conquer an anthill and torture the ants! Jesus did not come down through the ages to rule an anthill for a day.

God creates through His Word. His Word is His Will. Just as the universe is made of atoms, so is God made of His Word.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made” — John 1:1-3

God created the universe by His Word. His Word is His Will. His Will is embodied in Jesus.

There is no greater power than His love. Just as light overwhelms darkness wherever it shines, so does His love displace all evil. Love is the answer to all your prayers. It heals. It soothes. It protects. It provides. It nourishes.

God go with you on your moral journey.

7

Lib, I recently came across this passage in a book recently, and was wondering what your opinion is of it:

8

My opinion is that it unnecessarily presumes perfection to be a singularity of existence. That makes perfection aspectful and therefore is intrinsically contradictory.

9

If Libertarian started a religion, what would it be called? “Libertarianism” is already taken, although not by a religion. How about “Liberdopianism”?

Count me among the people whose outlooks have been measurably, significantly changed directly due to something Libertarian has posted. At least once (on another board). I may not “get” his political views, but I’m with 0rbytal that his faith is an inspiration. Thanks, Libertarian.

10

Thanks to you, and to everyone, for the heartening words. I honestly have zero interest in starting any religion. For me, the one started by Jesus is just perfect. :slight_smile: