Life continues beyond physical death. Is this proof of God's existance.

Great Debates
241

Tom Sawyer? Shall I check on Huck Finn and Injun Joe as well?
A Clarification Of My Opinion On NDE’s-
I absolutely believe that in some cases, during brief periods of clinical death, the non-corporeal-consciousness-field leaves the body and enters layers 2 and/or 3 of the Ether-field. I have spent many hours waiting in in the areas of layer 2 which overlie hospitals(most often Jefferson hospital. Though living in Philadelphia means that several hospitals are only a short trip from my home). I have seen and recorded TRUE NDE’s.

  My belief in them is thus like my belief in diamonds.

I know that they exist. But if someone presents what they claim is a diamond, I will have to have evidence before I accept that that specific item is a diamond. Sometimes it is a diamond. Sometimes it’s cubic zirconium, or glass.

You claim to have had a true NDE. I believe that such things happen. The question is whether it happened to you. All my data indicates that your NCCF never left your body. What you experienced was the result of neurochemistry.

242

To Doc

Here is the address to Tom Sawyer’s NDE.

http://www.near-death.com/sawyer.html

Not the Tom in the book.

You don’t know as much as you think. Nothing about NDEs.
To David

I have the scientific proof, you don’t.

http://ndeweb.com/wildcard

Again, don’t tell me about my personal experiences. You wouldn’t know.

Leroy

243

**
My apologies to Tom.

Re-My Knowledge Of NDE's

I’ve got a PhD in EtherPsychology and a Bachelor’s in Ether-QuantumEngineering.
I invented a device capable of measuring and analysing the human soul. I have cured “irrepairable” brain damage by working on patients’ NCCFs. I have watched, recorded and analyzed hundreds of NCCF’s leaving the physical body upon death.
Don’t you EVER tell me I don’t know about NDE’s!

I’ve looked for scientifc proof on your site. I’ve found none. Do you know what the scientific method is? Can you analyse the facts in such a way as to lead to experimentally-verifiable-hypothesis? Further, are you familiar with the concept of Occam’s razor?

RE-Personal Experiences
Nobody in this thread is saying that you didn’t see and hear things. They disagree as to what caused those sensations.
I’ve tried illustrating this point with examples before. But it seems you still don’t understand what I’m saying.

   What if, instead of an NDE, you had seen the Loch Ness monster? You believe that what you saw was the great beast of legend. Others say you saw a school of fish, driftwood, pranksters, etc. Evidence is needed to prove each sides claims. If say, a fishing boat nearby picked up a large blip on sonar, that would be evidence to support your case. If the same boat detected nothing but trout in the water, that would be evidence supporting the hypothesis that you did not see Nessie.

RE- The OP
As I’ve said, the NCCFs of the recently deceased go through a wormhole to somewhere. I’ve been unable to track or enter these wormholes. I believe that these wormholes are portals to additional layers of the Ether-field:specifically a Heaven realm and a Hell realm. However, I have no evidence that this is true. The existence of NCCFs does not prove the existence of God anymore than the physical universe proves that God exists.

244

EtherPsychology? EtherQuantumEngineering? Is this how it reads on your diplomas? With no spaces? What university did you attend? Scientology Tech? WTF?

Recently deceased go through a wormhole to somewhere? interesting. I think I’ve heard that theory before somewhere…

oh yeah… the asylum.

Could the wormhole possibly lead to an ambulance, then morgue, then funeral home, then coffin, then underground?

PS-- You say you’ve been unable to enter the wormhole---- perhaps if you die or something??? worth a try anyway…

245

I mean no discourtesy to anyone, but I have never heard of the field of etherwhatever. I do know that Albert Einstein did not like the word ether because no one could explain to him what it was or why it was.

I have a certain expectation from those who have degrees, but it stops there. They get my respect when they show they know what they’re talking about and what they’re doing. Otherwise a degree is just a degree.

Yes, DocCathode, I already knew you would have a reason for not analysing the list of names. Us NDEers are psychic.
Love
Leroy

246

**
It was actually due to Einstein’s work that the Technocracy decided to eliminate Ether. Up until that time, space was filled with luminiferous Ether. Then, the Greyfaces decided not only to eliminate it, but to convince everyone it never existed.

I NEVER claimed to be able to get readings from a list of names. I’ve explained twice already how and why I can scan your NCCF. I don’t know how to make this clearer. I can scan the NCCF of any SDMB member who is currently logged in.

  I did say that I would run diagnostics on my equipment and verify my readings of your NCCF. I have.

    Your non-corporeal-consciousness-field bears no residue and exhibits no sign of EVER having left your body. 

    Your NDE was purely neurological in nature. The facts, timeline, and sensations are no more supernatural than a garden variety dream. My research has proven that some people's NCCF's do leave their bodies during brief periods of clinical death. Yours never did.
247

Thank you, but I have been out-of-body more times than I can count. Your machine is inaccurate.

248

Wow. This has turned…weird.

249

For anyone who hasn’t clued in yet, DocCathode is tormenting poor lekatt with pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo using evidence that only he posesses filtered through methods which he assures us are sound but are not adequately explained. No one can refute his evidence because the method he used to gather the evidence is “scientifically sound and proven” but unavailable to us poor mehums.(mere humans) We are therefore forced to accept his interpretation of the meaning of his evidence.

I think Libertarian just lost the Parody King of the SDMB[sup]TM[/sup] title and we will have to crown DocCathode.

To sum up, again, this debate ended back on page 4 with this little excerpt.

lekatt is unwilling to accept the possibility that the experiences may be due to some unexplained/undiscovered biological process during death. Death is a process, not a single line in the sand.

This is all quibbling over the semantics of “clinical death” versus “death.” No one has ever come back from the dead(barring religious assertions). Clinical death can be defined as brain death, cessation of pulmonary activity, etc. In some cases Clinical Death can be a temporary or curable condition. Not too long ago it was defined as the cessation of breathing.

Death, by definition, is final. If you recover from it, then you didn’t really die. The true definition of death is “the end of life”. No one has ever had an after-death experience and come back to tell us about it. Anyone who has come back has, by definition, not truly died. They simply entered a state of physiological being that the current state of the medical field had defined as “dead”. It is clear that even modern medicine does not have a good grasp on everything that happens during the process of dying.

lekatt has an opinion. It’s perfectly valid, but it should not be presented as scientific fact. Not all other avenues which are immediately obvious as alternative causes for the NDEs of himself and people like Pay Reynolds have been explored. That’s as fair a summary as I can think of.

Enjoy,
Steven

250

Hi Steven

I present this as scientific fact because there is proof to back it up. Lots of proof, done by accreditated science groups.

In the article below is a superbly documented example, two scientific studies and other collaborating events.

On the other side, there is absolutely no proof, zero proof, that consciousness is a product of the brain.

I think it is pretty clear and straightforward to those who are not biased with vested interests.

http://ndeweb.com/wildcard

Now, if you disagree with the scientists who have done this studies, please tell them, not me. I am sure they will appreciate it.

Leroy

251

If the good Doc is indeed yanking Lekatt’s chain, he sure is doing an elaborate job of it. He does a convincing imitation of a crackpot. The whole thing is deliciously ironic: seeing Lekatt try to refute someone ELSE’s psuedo-science. What’s scary is that Lekatt’s reaction to Doc’s nonsense is remarkably similar to his reaction to the legitimate arguments made earlier by others.

252

**
Psuedo-scientifc mumbo jumbo! (Deep Breath)
If a Doper were to post their entire proof of Fermat’s Last, ony a handful of other Dopers would be able to understand it.
If a Doper were to post a valid an workable theory of Quantum Gravity, the majority of Dopers would be unable to understand even the title.
I use summaries and simplifications for the sake of clarity. If I were to fully explain my methods, very few Dopers would understand them.

**
At present you are mere humans. One of my reasons for studying the NCCF is to find a way to actualize the meta-conscious mind. I am looking down on you from a great height. But my goal is to give you the power to join me.

**
The Technocracy has blinded you. You can’t accept even the possibility that I’m merely stating facts.

But I have a foolproof method for telling whether a true NDE occured or if the experience was purely biological in nature. If I am present, I can simply watch the NCCF. If the NCCF leaves the body and returns, a true NDE has occured. If the NCCF remains in the body, it can not have had any contact with the “spirit world” and the NDE was caused by biological processes.
As I’ve said previously, an NCCF which has actually travelled to the “spirit world” bears an energy signature. Any living human who has that signature has had a true NDE. A human who claims to have had an NDE but whose NCCF lacks the signature, had an experience caused entirely by physical body.

RE-Colleagues
I acknowledege Captain Amazing as a fellow Scientist. Our goals differ, and we belong to organizations that are often at odds with eachother. However, he is an Actualized human who understands the fundamentals of science. If he and I can keep our organizations’ agendas out of this thread, I trust him to understand, analyse, reproduce and verify my methods and data.
Sturmhawke is Actualized as well, but is trained in mysticism rather than Science. Still, if I show the “Heaven-Scent” to Sturmhawke, I believe he will be able to detect whether it is present or not.

253

Boy, this conversation is getting really whacked. I’d join in, but it seems I have such conservative views on the matter I wouldn’t know where to begin.

Now where did I leave that Thetan of mine…?

254

DocCathode is taking a rather high-profile position for a member of the Sons of Ether.

Aren’t you concerned about Technocratic monitoring of these boards? They’re a haven for stasis, after all.

255

Doc:

I’ve been out of the loop of current NCCF research for a few years now–the last laymans’ level texts I’ve read on the subject were ~1998 or so, and I know how quickly strides have been made, so hopefully this isn’t a silly question. How and when did the non-locality problem with NCCF scanners get resolved?

As I understood it last, there was a fuzzy limit of the resolution precision with NCCF imaging which blocked out the finer details of the important interstices in the spacetime/matterenergy/soulmind kalebi-vau manifolds–the prevailing theory (again, this is in the sources I was seeing abstracts of ~98 or so) was that the “spirit world” had of course non-locally quantum-entangled with the NCCF at the moment of physical incarnation, which greatly reduced the precision of being able to tell when the field had moved away from the body and when it hadn’t. Leaders in the field were saying it was probably non-resolvable without a quantum computing solution. Was there some sort of breakthrough in the mathematics that allowed that NCCF-localizing problem to be renormalized?

Like I said, I’ve been out of the loop here for awhile. I appreciate any ignorance-fighting you can provide me here. Thanks.

256

I did some research on previous posts and find DocCathode creative and inventive. Fast thinker and good writer, not sure why he chose me, but I will accept it as good fun.

I know the purpose of this thread is long forgotten, with the fun and all.

I would like to say that Near Death Experiences are important to me because they help those who feel hopeless and unloved to find some real truth in their lives.

http://ndeweb.com/wildcard

is still a very important subject and I wish those who have not really read near death experiences right from the experiencer to do so. If all you know is what you heard in the media or skeptical science books, I think you will be very surprised.

Love
Leroy

257

Hmmm…Float out of body; bright light; tunnel; see family; see God; sucked back in body. Oh, yeah, that IS surprising…NOT.

258

Pretty conclusive now kids. Troll. Though I sort of wish he was an albatross at this point…

259

So you recomend that the hopeless and unloved risk their lives? How else would they find this ‘real’ truth without first-hand experience? Short of taking your experiences at face value, that is.

260

Yes, I’ve got a few hundred posts under my belt. Yes, I like to write a good parody now and then.

 I am also a proud Son Of Ether. I don't mention this very often. Most of the time, non-Actualized science is able to provide evidence. Bringing EtherScience to the debate would only confuse people. In addition, I don't like to brag. SuaSponte is a lawyer and Qagdop is a physician. But they mention their status rarely and only in threads where it is truly relevant.

    Radio telescopes, MRI's, and many other things function on scientific principles that most people cannot understand. This does not make them mumbo jumbo or pseudoscience. The same is true of my research and equipment. The fact that so many of my fellow Dopers view my work as a parody is deeply hurtful.

Re-My Profile And The Technocratic Threat
The SDMB is neutral ground. Here, Actualised humans of many varieties work to fight ignorance. Here, I can look at Captain Amazing not as an enemy, but as a fellow Scientist. Here at the Straight Dope Message Board, we have declared a truce in our war and returned to our search for truth and knowledge.

Drastic-
Excellent questions! The solution was two-fold. The existence of non-corporeal-entities who attach themselves to data and machines has long been known. By incorporating these “Net-Spiders” into our equipment we can achieve a precision beyond what physical components alone are capable of. The problem was fully solved by an EtherPhysicist who was an avid Trekkie. The Federation’s Transporters make use of a “HeisenBerg Compensator”. After lengthy discussions with other Trekkies and physicists, he was abe to build such a device. It does, as you surmised, involve quantum superstates. For a full explanation, I’d have to find my old textbook. Proving God’s existence is a simple task compared to finding things in my apartment.

Lekatt- I am having fun in this thread. But only because I enjoy discussing science. I am not playing a prank. My NCCF field scanner is every bit as real and reliable as my multimeter, oscilloscope, spectrascope, and thermometer. The difference is that my NCCF scanner is far more complex, and is not allowed by the laws of non-Actualize science.
Re-Your NDE
Again, you have Psuedotheizine poisoning. Your NDE and OBE’s are, essentially, spiritual hallucinations. Yes, they seem very real to you. Psuedotheizine was engineered for just that purpose. Until, and sadly unless, you rid yourself of this drug, your spiritual judgement and perceptions are wholly unreliable. A man may finish a bottle of Jack, stagger to the door, spend ten minutes turning the knob, and insist all the while that he is just fine and in a fit state to drive home. But an objective observer can see that he isn’t.
I have run full-scale diagnostics on my equipment. Your NCCF does not bear the signature caused by travel to the secondary or tertiary layers of the Ether-field. Therefore, your NCCF has never traveled to the secondary or tertiary layers. In layman’s terms, you have not had a true NDE.
Protest all you want. But as long as you remain under the influence of Psuedotheizine(It does not wear off by the way. Unless countered by the mental and spiritual exercise I describe, one does will last a lifetime), your spiritual judgement is faulty and your spiritual perceptions false.