She has six cats. The four main kitties are very cool and adorable. However, the other two are like wild mental cases. They hide in the closet 24/7. You can’t pet them because they’re mean. They won’t make good pets for anyone. They’re possessed or something. Other than that, I agree that the animals are very good for her. We just got her to give up her birds, fish and turtle. It was impossible for her to care for them.
I’m planning on contacting the sisters, my MIL and set up an intervention. She’s beyond the point of reason. She needs to hear the hard truth.
Peapod rocks. I’ve already offered to do her grocery order every week or two as she needs it. So far, she’d rather saddle others with actually going to the store for her. I know peapod is her best bet, but she won’t take the step!
She’s quite capable of this and needs no assistance. All her bills are paid on time.
Correct.
She has canes, a walker and a wheelchair. She said she can barely get around with the walker anymore. The chair sits with blankets and pillows folded up on it. Sigh…
PHARMACY:
Yes, she needs to do this, but again…insists on asking others to go out of their way and do it for her.
I just wanted to comment on this briefly. I don’t know who told you that the gov’t only goes back 6 months in checking financial records, but when we were dealing with my grandmother going into a home, it was made clear that her financial records would be scrutinized going back 3 years. There is no “hiding” of assets these days without plans made well in advance of the time that most people finally accept having to deal with disability.
By the way, we had a somewhat similar situation with my grandmother, except that she was suffering from dementia that was getting steadily worse. Since she was able to dress herself and cook for herself (despite doing such bizarre things setting the dinner table for my non-resident uncle and deceased grandfather, complete with half-empty beer bottles on the table(?!)), we couldn’t get Medicare to cover the cost of a visiting nurse. That meant my dad was constantly at her apartment making sure she took her medications properly, doing her shopping and cleaning, etc. Because of her specific issues he was eventually forced to admit he couldn’t handle her any more, and with the help of her doctor got her admitted to a decent nursing home. That, by the way, meant surrendering what few assets she had left (minus pre-paid funeral expenses) to pay for the nursing home before Medicaid kicked in.
If your SIL is declining as rapidly as you describe, and she has assets your family wants to protect, someone should consult an elder care attorney ASAP to figure out a course of action that will best protect her interests.
I notice you mentioned that she owns her townhome. What about the possibility of getting a reverse mortgage, to help pay for someone to come in for a few hours every day? If she is lonely (which wouldn’t surprise me), it might help boost her spirits if she has a paid companion to talk to who also happens to help with the chores.
Plus, while the clothes are in the machines, you’re cleaning the bathroom. It’s not like you have to take your clothes down to the river and beat 'em on a rock. She never wears clothes. I’m serious. Like only when she goes to the doctor. She has a couple robes and underwear, towels, maybe some socks. That’s it.
I understand. I just think you’re grossly overestimating the workload. It simply isn’t that much. It isn’t a “caregiver” position. It’s light housekeeping and light errands at best. She has very simple needs.
I just saw this. These things make her sound EXACTLY like my grandmother, who would find any excuse to make someone spend time with her. I really think you need to find someone who will be a companion as much as a helper.
That is just a horrible situation. She doesn’t have dementia, she’s just stubborn. It’s the physical mobility that is the biggest issue. I just found out Medicare doesn’t kick in until she’s 65, so she will have to remain on the health plan she’s been on. It’s some sort of subsidy program for the poor. They took care of her mastectomy, a bout of sepsis, and a couple severe asthma attacks over the last 10 years. But they don’t seem to be responsive unless the shit hits the fan.
The reverse mortgage sounds like a good idea. I think her children have mentioned it to her but I will be sure to mention it again. Her place definitely needs some work and it’s not worth a whole lot to begin with, but she should be able to get something. Her ex husband also pitches in financially when she’s in a jam. We’re hoping he continues to do that.
I guess I didn’t consider time in the washer/dryer as “work” time. Sure, if you’re someone coming in to do this work, you’re on the clock while this happens. But if you’re living in the same house, I don’t see how you can justify time spent on your butt watching TV (or reading, or sleeping, or whatever) as “work” time.
If it really is an issue, do what Kalhoun said, and do the mopping/bathroom cleaning while the clothes are in the washer/dryer. It’s not like you have to stand there watching them.
For what it’s worth, I have a huge house, and me and the hubby both work full time so we pay someone to clean for us. In two to 2.5 hours a week, our cleaning lady vacuums & mops approximately 3000 square feet of floors (including one staircase), cleans two full bathrooms, vacuums two rooms full of furniture, and cleans the kitchen. I wouldn’t rate her work as spectacular, but it’s definitely OK, and at least as good as I’d do myself. When we’re talking one small apartment, I can’t see how it would take anyone any more time to do the work Kalhoun has described.
I can see how there’s a chance that Kalhoun’s S-i-L might potentially take advantage of her live-in help and the person might end up doing more than what was originally in the deal. But there’s ways to keep tabs on this kind of “work creep.” I’m just going on what Kalhoun posted as the requested amount of work, and to me it seems more than reasonable that it can be done in a few hours a week.
I’m not a great housekeeper either (but infinitely better than my SIL). Her home was so bad when we went in after the live-in died, most of you would have turned around and walked right back out. We had a team of four people there for 8 hours just making it almost presentable.
The cats took over the house years ago. Because of that, she has virtually no furniture. No couch…just some tables and bookshelves, a dinette table and a couple chairs, and her bedroom furniture. The carpeting is gone. Easier for her to clean up the cat messes with a mop.
It’s a terrible situation. I think it began with her mastectomy and Cocksucker’s cold-as-ice attitude toward her physical loss. “Oh…so you lost your little titty…snap out of it and quit being such a crybaby.” Yeah…he was a real favorite amongst the siblings, alright. Her eldest son killed himself years ago, her closest sister died a couple years ago, and she alienated herself from the rest of the sibs because everyone disapproved of her relationship with Cocksucker.
Therapy is basically out of the question. She looks at it as 1) a sign of weakness (thanks to Cocksucker) and 2) doesn’t believe in it. She’s old school and believes all that sort of thing needs to be worked out from within. Therefore, she doesn’t believe antidepressants are something she can benefit from. She’s all about ativan and other “tranqs” but doesn’t address the actual depression.
I’m waiting for the Sister of Reason to return from her trip tomorrow and discuss how we should proceed with this. I think the only way she can live a better life is to have someone living with her and actually living her life for her. I can’t make decisions for her. If she chooses to waste away, I don’t see how I can stop her.
I appreciate all the great suggestions and will bring them all up should we stage a final intervention.
Are there any Universities in the area? If so, a grad student might be just what you need. Even then, though, I think the deal might turn out to have to be the room free rather than reduced.
My guess is that the six cats are going to be the real deal killer. Don’t get me wrong, I love cats, have two of my own. But cats create a whole lot of work. Vacuuming goes from a once a week breeze to at least twice a week, more likely three, AND you have to spend more time each time getting the fur out of upholstered furniture and such. And hair balls… I cannot remember the last day when I didn’t have to clean up at least one mess.
And then there’s the odor factor. Yes, keeping the litter boxes scrupulously clean helps, but that takes time, too. We keep a ‘main’ litter box, plus two more on the lesser used levels. The main one is scooped three times a day. And that’s for two cats.
And…six cats in what you call a small apartment? The live-in will be continually stepping over them as she tries to vacuum or wash floors…
BTW, it sounds like you are talking about a relatively small amount of money in the bank, just a few thousand. Don’t try to hide it, just have you SIL spend it down. Hiring a maid? Have her pay for the maid out of her own account. It sounds like she’s over due for a doctor visit. If she’s had breast cancer, has she been keeping up with the recommended followup xrays? How long has it been since she’s seen an optometrist? New reading glasses, at least, are likely needed. Dentist – how long since her last exam, does she need work done?
Clothing: is she’s living in just a few robes, wearing them over and over, then the ones she has are likely due for replacement. And get her enough that she can wear a fresh one every day.
And so on, and so forth. Are there repairs needed to the house? Get them done, and paid for from her account.
All these types of expenditures are considered NECESSITIES, and won’t raise an eyebrow or get her disqualified from benefits. Even if the question arises of why so much in such a short time – well, the true and obvious answer is, it was a backlog of needed things due to her not keeping up.
And get her to a psychiatrist! She’s clearly depressed, and there are a great many medications that can help her immensely. (And also use up ‘excess’ money.)
All of what has been posted is good advice, and seemingly obvious to someone who isn’t in the mental state she’s in. I cannot get her to a doctor if she refuses to go. She refuses to go because she doesn’t care about her health or the quality of her life, so she makes excuses on how she “can’t” get to the doctor, doesn’t have transportation, money, blah, blah, blah. She definitely needs a shrink, but we can’t force her.
My husband tells me I need to stop obsessing about this.
Whatever you do as far as a live-in, be very clear (written agreement) about what the expectations are, and leave a clause as to whether the person would be open to adding more duties if things progress that way. I took an apartment upstairs from an elderly woman, ostensibly to be there in case of emergency (she had Lifeline, etc., and I was the contact). I still had to pay $400 which wasn’t much of a discount off an apartment in the area.
It developed into expectations that I would spend time with her, etc., things I hadn’t agreed to.
So it almost makes more sense to collect the full income off the extra room and hire a professional from outside who can adjust to changes and keep the duties on a clinical level, so to speak.
It sounds as if the most difficult part of this problem is your (and your husband’s) relationship to your SIL and her understanding of her situation. Until this is resolved, I don’t think you want to add landlord/employer to your list of responsibilities.
I think that the first thing you want to do is contact a social worker. Many employers have ‘personal concerns’ programs where a social worker will help you (provide suggestions & referrals to agencies). If you don’t, then try and locate a local agency (you might try the town/county/state website or just type ‘elder care’ into Google).
As far as her attitude is concerned, perhaps some kind of intervention might be indicated, if you can get enough concerned family members to help out.
As far as your original question is concerned, I don’t think it is feasible that you are going to get any kind of responsible person there. I think the combination of depression and six cats pretty much rules that out. It might be a consideration at some later point in time when she is on the right meds and has culled the herd a bit.
When I’m at home and “on call” for work, they pay me for making myself available for essentially giving up MY free time in which I get to do what I choose (going out for drinks, driving south to see friends, attending a show, etc.) so that I may be available to do what they want me to do, (like waiting for laundry to dry (or cleaning the bathroom while I wait). I don’t see how living in the same house is relevant. It’s still the roommate’s freedom that’s given up. They must remain at home to finish her laundry.
I think it’s more likely that the live-in will begin to resent the implication that her free time isn’t important, especially as her emotionally needy “roommate” gradually increases the expectations of the roommate–expectations to complete duties that the roommate likely will not be compensated for.
I think gigi has the right idea, and that it’s important to list what the exact responsibilities will be, so that there is no “work creep,” as you say.
But as others have mentioned, the cats and her mental state will make it difficult to find a roommate (instead of a care-giver).
It’s wonderful that you’re doing so much to try to help her, Kalhoun. I hope it all works out.
I guess we just have to agree to disagree on this one. I don’t think it’s at all an imposition to throw some laundry in once a week when you live at that house. If I was worried about “giving up freedom” I’d plan on doing the other chores in between the loads of laundry. To say that it’s a 2 hour job when it’s really only 15 minutes is really stretching it - are you really NEVER home for 2 hours at a time? If so, then maybe that person isn’t a good fit for the job.
Heck, there really isn’t even that much of an implication that you have to sit at home while the machine does the work. I throw laundry in before work, go to work, then put it in the dryer and unless it’s something really delicate or requires special washing, it’s fine. Same with the dryer.
Even in a work-out-of-the house situation, most employers would find other tasks for that worker to do while the laundry was being done. You wouldn’t get to sit on your ass watching TV and getting paid for it.
I agree with you, if that scenario comes to pass. However, it’s speculation that it will happen; I was simply answering the question that the OP posed and not speculation on what might happen. Either way, I think it’s wise to get everything in writing.
Athena, I’m thrilled that it only takes you 15 minutes to do the laundry. Unfortunately, most of us have to wait an hour to an hour and a half from start to finish.
Yes, I’m often home for 2 hours at a time, but I thought we were talking about a potential roommate?
If someone is paying the caregiver to do the laundry, how is that an “imposition”?
Uh hu. This is how I do it, too, except I like to get my clothes out of the dryer before they wrinkle. But what do our laundry preferences have to do with a caregiver having to set aside a 1 1/2-hour time slot to do laundry for someone else?
Yes, for which they would be paid. I’m surprised you can’t see the difference here. Have you ever worked as a caregiver, either live-in or live-out?
If you worked as a security guard, you might only do about 20 minutes of actual “work” but you are paid for your entire shift. You are paid for making yourself available, should trouble arise. When I worked as a live-in caregiver, I was paid for my availability and my work. I’d help with homework, run errands, clean house, make dinner, do laundry, and in between all that I might watch a little TV, have a visit with a neighbor, play with the kids, talk on the phone, etc. But my life was not my own while I was on the job, whether I was ironing or taking the kids to Dairy Queen or just watching TV.
Well, I don’t sit on my ass watching TV when I do laundry, but then, this isn’t about me, so I’m not sure why you keep using first-person, nor am I sure what your point is. I never said that the caregiver shouldn’t earn the money paid to her. My point was that laundry takes longer than 15 minutes.
Actually, what you’ve been doing the past several posts is argue with me, and I’m not sure why. Have I personally attacked you in some way? All anyone can do in relation to the OP is “speculate” based on our experiences. That’s what Kalhoun asked us to do.
All Athena is doing is agreeing with my opinion that there isn’t hours and hours and hours of housework to be done in this scenario.
Look… The person would contract to do the following:
Clean the bathroom (1/2 hour) once a week
Sweep the floors (ten minutes? Fifteen?)
Mop the floors (20 minutes to 1/2 hour)
Pick up items at the store (which may or may not be done when she’s going for herself anyway) I’ll stretch it and say 45 minutes
Laundry in the washer, out of the washer, in the dryer, into a basket - one or two loads per week (maybe 1.5 hours)
Scoop the kitty boxes daily (10-15 minutes)
The occasional doctor visit (probably not more than once every couple months)
Most of the above can be done during the time the washer and dryer are running. This roommate would be doing whatever she wanted to do during her free time, with the exception of these duties, which are all flexible. You want to break them up into a couple days? Fine. You want to do it all on Saturday morning? That’s fine too.
This is not a caregiver situation. It’s a roommate with housekeeping/shopping duties. They are two completely different scenarios. I don’t know how else to phrase it so people would understand!
There is no dispensing of medicine
There is no bathing
There is no changing
There is no feeding
There is no dressing
There is no cooking
There are no handyman duties
Even if the duties were stretched out to 50% more time, it would be well worth the savings in rent so this person could go to school or live within their limited budget. If my SIL’s health degraded to the point where she needed a caregiver, obviously the scenario is no longer the same and a new arrangement would be sought, either with this roommate or somewhere else. Financial situation would be adjusted accordingly.
The consensus here seems to be about 4 to 1 against you, in estimating the amount of time involved. I’ll say it again, do a few interviews, hire someone and let us know, in a month or two, how it works out. I’m not saying that there aren’t people out there who would be glad to get such a deal and might be concientious about the duties, but I think they’re few and far between. You’re counting on everything going according to your preconcieved plan, that very rarely happens, Murphy’s Law.
If your SIL goes off her meds., as you indicated, w/o consulting her Dr., you might soon have a different set of problems.
Right. But the person involved in helping her with light housekeeping wouldn’t be responsible for that anyway. She wouldn’t be responsible for anything that isn’t related to the list I posted. It would be different circumstances, but not for the roommate any more than it would be if able-bodied roommates suddenly found that one of them needed medication. I’m amazed that most of you insist on reading more into this than is actually there.
The truly “amazing” part, is where you asked for opinions on your plan and then dispute everyone that disagrees w/ you. Why did you start the thread to begin with?