Advice please on the best way to handle this sibling/room mate issue

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

My baby sister moved in with me two months ago.

Backstory: We haven’t lived together since she was 12 (I am 5 years older), and I was something of a mother to her when she was a kid. Before I asked her to move two states away to come live with me, she was essentially homeless, but she’s a hippie who travels from concert to festival constantly so she was doing all right if you can stand that lifestyle. She has a variety of issues right now including depression, anxiety, lack of motivation, authority problems, lots of drugs and drinking - which I can surely relate to. I’m worried about her and that’s why I asked her to come live with me even though I hate living with other people. I am a sober, boring, and responsible person ATM, I just work 40-50 hours per week to pay my bills, take care of my pets and cook and clean.

She moved in on October 1st, and hasn’t given me any money yet, which isn’t the biggest concern - before she moved in I said I wouldn’t expect her to pay expenses right away because I know she’s been having a hard time, but I also told her I am struggling financially right now and whatever she could give me would be a big help. She said at that time that she wanted to get a job in the area and would be giving me money to help me out. She does have her ways of making money, and she has some money because I can see she’s spending it on stuff, but she doesn’t have a job or anything. So at this point I’m thinking we need to have a talk about her paying part of the electric bill and going halves on the rent, and her getting a ‘real’ job in the area so she has some steady income and can contribute to the household.

She’s also out of town at least 50% of the time, but all her stuff is here.

The real issue is that she’s making my life harder because she’s been totally lazy around the house, and I’m wondering how best to tell her to act like an adult and treat me with some fucking courtesy. I’m sure nagging her will just piss her off, and I don’t want to have to act like her mother, but I feel like she’s forcing me to. I had to talk to her last week about her making my home stink like cigarettes - this is the only ground rule I laid before she got here, and she wasn’t respecting it at all (she’s been good since then, I haven’t smelled any smoke). She’s done nearly zero housework/dishes since she’s gotten here, and made pretty plentiful mess, but friends she has over have been pretty helpful with clean-up so I haven’t had to do too much extra work… but the last straw is that this morning she left to go out of town for at least 3 days and left a truly gigantic mess behind. I had cleaned our shared living space top to bottom before she came home 3 days ago - in that time she dirtied nearly every dish we own, splattered food all over everything, and and left it all piled up in our ‘kitchen’ (which barely exists - I have to prep food over the sink or on the stove top, we don’t have a counter). While she was doing all this I was at work or doing work-related stuff pretty constantly, you know, to pay the bills for the place we both live while she sat around and messed it up. I barely saw her, so I didn’t have a chance to say anything, and I was sure she wouldn’t be such an asshole as to not clean so much as a fork before she left. Now she’s left me with the choice of living with a filthy kitchen I can’t cook it - and I cook at least once per day - for an indeterminate time, or spending a couple hours cleaning her mess up.

I’m feeling REALLY angry right now, but I’m determined not to be passive aggressive and I also don’t want to be too mean or over-the-top when I do sit her down to have a talk. What would you all do in my position and how exactly should I phrase my concerns here without coming across like an angry control freak (AKA, our mother, who we both have serious issues with)? I’ve had several room mates before, but I’ve never had one be quite so rude and inconsiderate (IMO) so I’m a bit lost as to how to set up ‘house rules’ for everyone to follow.

2

You said this about her - “she was essentially homeless, but she’s a hippie who travels from concert to festival constantly so she was doing all right if you can stand that lifestyle. She has a variety of issues right now including depression, anxiety, lack of motivation, authority problems, lots of drugs and drinking” and you expected something else? You invited a bum to live in your home, and she’s acting like a bum. Don’t worry about being a an angry control-freak - no smoking, pay the rent and bills that you decide on together (and on time), keep your room at cleanliness levels that don’t cause vermin or smells, and keep common areas clean, period. If she can’t do that, she can’t be your roommate, because those are basic minimums for roommates.

ETA: You probably don’t need me to tell you that these rules should have been laid down before she agreed to move in, but better late than never.

3

The best thing right now is to tell it like it is and not pussy foot around. Let her know her responsibilities. I’m not saying everything will go smoothly, but this is what you need to do at this point.

4

Often people apply tough love but forget the love part.

You need to sit down and write out a list of the MINIMUM you want from her. You aren’t going to get more than the minimum so that is what you ask for.

Write out a list, ask yourself “Can I live with this?” then answer yourself honestly

Once you compse the list you sit down and say this is the agreement. I will expect you to stick to it.

If you can’t agree to those terms, I will be giving you 60 days to make other arrangements. I say 60 'cause with the holidays it’s hard to find a job and a lot of seasonal work has already been hired. So you might say by January 31st I’ll expect you out, IF you cannot abide by these rules

It’s fair to you, as you gave her a chance and were willing to work. It’s fair to your sibling as she has significant time to make other arangements and won’t be kicked out in the dead of winter.

You can’t please everyone but you can’t let others dictate your life and honestly you’re not doing her no favours. I mean what if you die? Who’s gonna help her then? I shouldn’t say what, 'cause it’s gonna happen so she needs to at least start a move toward independence

5

You need to decide what your expectations are, and determine what consequences you are willing to impose if the expectations are not met.

Then, you talk to her: These are my expectations. And these are your consequences if you do not meet them. This Starts Now.
mmm

6

I hope she is at least offering to share all the drugs you say she takes…

7

Yes, but my days of getting intoxicated are past (I think the last time I was drunk or high was in 2006). Thanks everyone!

8

That was just my idea of a dumb joke…

But seriously, I hope that you can impress your sister that she will have to treat you and your place with respect and clean up after herself.

Good Luck!!!

9

I’ll take a wild arsed guess that few people have expected more out of her than she seems to give.

Let her know that you DO expect more, because you know she can do ‘better’ than she has been. Most times, people give what you they think you expect. Expect more.

Yes, this sounds parenty and snotty, but there’s got to be a way to let her know she can do better without it sounding like a put-down.

Any psychological folk here who know how to do that? :stuck_out_tongue:

10

If her depression/anxiety are severe, that could well explain the lack of motivation (and lack of motivation to clean after herself). Is she getting help? Can she get help if she’s not now? This may be a bigger problem than can be solved just by laying down the law (although I’d still do that anyway). It may be a bigger problem than you’re equipped to deal with, either on your own, or at all. From the other side of the computer screen I can’t assess how bad it is, but you can, and you might need to take another look at it and decide how much you can handle.

Remember also that depression doesn’t always manifest as sadness or lethargy. Sometimes it manifests as hostility or avoidance.

11

I’ve been there, and there’s really only one solution - get her out of there as soon as possible. Help her find a job and a place (and when I say “help” I mean "hold her hand and practically fill in all the applications for her the entire way) and get her ass out of there. Letting her mooch off of you is doing neither of you any favors, at least in my experience.

12

Paying her way doesn’t have to necessarily be in a financial contribution. My kids don’t pay rent (they’re still school-age), but they’re still expected to contribute to the household by doing chores. Your sister may be too old to put it in those terms, but you can certainly tell her that since she can’t contribute financially right now, she can “work” for you. There are certain jobs that are inherent in being a member of a household and other jobs that you can “pay” her for. Make her earn her keep. Say, half of the grocery bill and electric bill and part of the rent or something like that. Put a dollar figure on it and come up with household jobs that will equal that. Work out a daily schedule with her. Let her have input in it. What jobs would she like to “apply” for? Give her a list to choose from if needed. List out the basic necessities of housemate contributions. Have her make a list every day of the things she needs to get done and have her check them off as she goes. She can give you the list at the end of the week and you can add up her “pay”. And if she does a good job, give her a bonus of some kind. Yes, it’s treating her like a child in some ways, but it sounds like it’s a part of childhood that she missed. You can still present it in an adult way. If she doesn’t get enough done, add more to the next week. Have her do stuff you don’t have time to do so that you’re getting something out of this deal.
You’re making it too comfortable for her to continue to do nothing. Why should she? Give her a reason why.

13

This is just like a grown kid come home to live with mommy and daddy. She needs to get a job! (and where does she go on these out-of-town trips, to visit and get high with other bums?) If she doesn’t get a job, she has to agree to your rules - no smoking in the house and if she trashes the place, she has to clean up. At the very least. Set a time limit, have a talk with her and say this is how it is. She’ll probably promise to do better, she will for a while, and at the end of the month will be back to square one. At that time, you are obligated for the sake of your own sanity and peace of mind to tell her she has to find other accommodations and you will help her find a room somewhere, and drive her and all her shit over there and move her in. Why can’t she move in with one of her friends?.. Then it’s over to her, if she wants to fail in life, spend her time travelling around with other bums and being shit-faced all the time, that’s her decision. You will have done what you can and you are under no obligation to support her, give her money, or take her in when she can’t pay for the room… Hungry? Here’s a loaf of bread and a jar of peanut butter. Need shelter? Here’s the address of the Salvation Army, or Rescue Mission, or abused womens shelter. Need clothing? Buy her a $5 sweatshirt and a $5 pair of matching sweatpants at Walmart, or take her to the thrift store. Sick? Give her a bottle of aspirin or bag of cough drops (she’ll probably drink cough syrup), and if she’s really sick, she can go to any hospital emergency room. She’ll be asking you for money - ask, what for? No more than bus fare, you know it will go towards partying… So she badmouths you and tries to make you feel guilty - don’t fall for it! You are under no obligation to underwrite a messed up life, and I don’t care if it IS “family”. A messed up bum is a messed up bum, they know how to work the system and get by, and they live off the efforts of others and never worry about it - don’t you!

14

I would make her having a job a condition for living with you. Ask her what she thinks of the people that work the line getting into the lot at a concert, saying things like “you don’t have to be a Rockafella’ to help a fella’” or “What the fuck, it’s just a buck?” as they panhandle. Or the people that show up to a festie with a bag of goldfish and mooch off of everyone else who actually came prepared. Or the assholes in the next spot over that sell nitrous all night, resulting in people tramping through your camp constantly, dropping balloons on the ground and making a mess. Tell her that’s what she’s acting like to you: the world you live in isn’t free, and it doesn’t bend to your schedule. If she has a job she’ll have a regular paycheck so she can pay you on time, and won’t have to sucker custies into buying overpriced eighths to scrape up some cash.

15

Bizarre. What makes you think she isn’t one of those people herself? If she’s got no job and is still constantly going to concerts then I would bet she is.

16

As someone who had been to many, many (many) concerts and music festivals, this was the first thing I thought of as well. She gets away with this on the road (supported by strangers, no less) so why in the world would she behave any differently when it’s her own sister she can parasite off of?

I just hope she dosen’t start using her sister’s place to start slinging her wares out of, as I doubt the cops would put much stock in the veracity of hearing “I swear that I didn’t know what she was up to, I haven’t even been drunk in 5 years!”

17

She lives at your place for free, gets to do what she wants while having no obligations and you clean up her messes. This is a pretty sweet deal for her. She won’t give it up, you have to take it from her. Would you be ready to throw her out if she breaks your agreement, even though it means she would be homeless? If you wouldn’t and she knows that, I don’t see her giving up a deal where she has the freedom of an adult but the responsibilities of a toddler. What would you do with a roomate who acted like that and wasn’t a sibling?
Is your fear of being a control freak something that would prevent you from enforcing your agreement with her? If so, do you think she would be ready to use your fear of being a control freak to get you to stop enforcing your agreement?

How permissive would you have to be to not be a control freak, as far as she’s concerned? Are you willing to be that permissive?

Me, I would make a list of homeless shelters. If she failed to abide by a reasonable agreement, I would give her the list and call the cops if necessary to get her out. I might give her a chance to come back after some time, under the same conditions and with the same penalty. But then, I’m a callous bastard who told his father he didn’t want to see him again when I was 20.

I’m sorry you’re in this situation. Sometimes all the options are painful.

18

I hadn’t even thought of the sister selling drugs out of rhu’s apartment (that is what we’re talking about, isn’t it?)! That would be instant deal-breaker - pack your shit and hit the streets, kid. You do try to help family, but you don’t let them take you down with them.

19

Yeah, I was sort of giving her the benefit of the doubt, but she does sound like a moocher. But still, maybe pointing it out to her will make her more productive on Phish tour as well? “Um, you do know that everyone at the show hates people like you, right? That they try to avoid you and wish you weren’t there? Maybe you should get a job, and with all that steady money you could buy a cooler and portable grill for a nice Gatorade and grilled cheese stand in the lots?”

20

NO, don’t talk. Put it in writing. Get it signed. A copy for her so she can’t say she ‘forgot’. Another copy posted somewhere around the apartment.

And I would start to plan on how to get her out. Because I doubt that she will meet your expectations, even if she does agree to them. Doesn’t sound like she has lived up to expectations all through her life so far; why would she change now?