I take this kind of personal, because I’m next.
After all, the Muslims have a beef about how we support the Israelis.
When they ask the synogogues to register Jews so that the government can protect us, my name goes on a list.
You make some great points here, especially about reactions to American political interferencein other areas of the world. Where have the Central American terrorists been? Why no Vietnamese terrorists 30-40 years ago?
As for the “not easy to resolve” point – I’ve had this sinking feeling, too. It really does seem that there isn’t room enough on Earth for both Islam and Western culture. It really looks to me like a situation of “two men enter … one man leaves.”
At least with the US-vs-USSR ideological war post-WWII, there was political “room” for both parties to sentle into a “cold war”. But I can’t see that happening with Islamic fundamentalists. Maybe tensions can cool somehow … don’t really know.
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I think the OBL was somewhat surprised by the USA’s reaction to 9/11. Before that, all we showed the world were half-measures and rhetoric. He might not have expected to have us crawl up his ass.
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Madrid, Bali and London become easier targets because the USA is on a higher level of alert. It also makes the cause global and seeks to drive a wedge between the USA and allies.
Oh really? My guess is that the victims, and their families, of 9/11 and todays bombings in England would disagree with that assertion. As would I.
American blood and treasure is being spent in Iraq daily in an attempt to do just that.
Sorry about the multiple posts. Computer problem. Fixed.
magellan01
I am not an American but I am also from a democratic Western Nation who values the rights of its citizens.
I have to ask you:
Why try to fight for the United States of America if you are going to strip away that which makes it worth fighting for?
It is easy to strip away the rights of others you find different because you think it has no effect on you. But you are wrong. Weaken one person’s rights and freedoms you open the doors for everyone’s rights to be stripped.
Yes I understand you are scared but you have to take a second to remember that in this struggle Western democracies are worth fighting for because of their strengths… human rights and freedoms for all of our citizens.
We must have the courage to fight against the fear and protect the very rights our enemy tries to use against us not because they are mere words and ideals but because they are worth fighting for… They are the things our grandparents died for. They are the things that generations of people strived and struggled for and the suggestion that we dash those ideals in a moment of cowardice, quite frankly, sicken me.
How is this supposed to root out terrorists? Do you hope that they carry their bombs when visiting a mosque? They might carry a card say “I am a terrorist”? If you are looking in mosques in your own country for terrorists why do you need to close your borders? If you hope to stop terrorists by closing your borders why are you looking in your own country?
I have always been wary of the whole “if you are innocent, you have nothing to fear” argument. If I am innocent why should I have to suffer people trampling all over my rights? By stigmatising a whole section of the population you are only going to stir up resentment. Your assumption being that the terrorists are part of the mainstream muslim population. Unless you can show that this is the case you are committing the worst type of racial stereotyping.
I sympathize. But I think it’s one think to profile a group because of crimes that have been and are being commited and profile a group for specific protection. Don’t you?
They’d be wrong then and speaking from emotion. Giving up what makes us American’s (or makes the British British) in an attempt (one that, IMHO wouldn’t work anyway) at safety is too great a price to pay…even if we have to endure another 9/11 some day in the future. I’m sorry that you don’t see that…its sad really.
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It’s a bullshit dichotomy anyway. The implication that we can’t protect lives without shitting on civil rights is a bullshit assumption. The implication that turning ourselves into a fascist police state will save lives is an even more bullshit assumption.
As to the OP, the only proper response for us is to let British law enforcement do its job. We have no other role except, perhaps, to apologize for bringing this upon them with our own dishonesty in duping them into an illegal war.
I would also hope that the Brits would pull their troops out of Iraq and let Bush clean up his own mess but I doubt that’s going to happen.
Some people think being a Jew is a crime, friend.
No.
Amen. Dio, you and I rarely agree, but you hit the nail on the head with this one.
Is it ? :) Even if you don't get targeted by hate crime... profiling jews might make them more prone to spam mail and unwanted ads. :eek:
By magellan’s logic they should profile rednecks… after all they are very dangerous. Timothy McVeigh for example. :smack:
My sentiments exactly.
Firstly I am saddened and angry at the same time, and my sympathy goes out to the injured and the relatives of those hurt and killed.
What we need now is to focus on the injured and repairing the transport network. The we need a measured response as stated above, good honest police work. No spectacular military actions that in the end achieve nothing other than creating new enemies who desire martyrdom. Having a number of people in prison for life may not be the cathartic reaction some people require, but it is the right thing to do.
I also agree that we must retain our freedoms and not remove freedoms of segments of society, otherwise what are we fighting for?
I don’t think anyone is calling for military action because of the London bombings. There is no country to attack. What is needed is for more people to realize that there is actually a war going on and that it might be a good idea to pull together rather than try to score political points.
That is not the only consequence though is it? Recent history does not lead one down that path of reasoning. The attacks of 9/11 eventually led to an environment where an invasion of Iraq was acceptable to the populace. Would the war in Iraq have happened if not for 9/11? Would the Madrid and London bombings have happened if not for the war in Iraq? How many people in Iraq, Madrid and London have died due to our responses to that terrorist attack? (Again, I am not blaming anybody other than the terrorists for the Madrid, London bombings).
Had we stopped in Afghanistan, hunting down the real people involved, how many deaths could have been saved? I blame people’s emotions and desire for revenge on everything after Afghanistan.
And that is completely ignoring the removal of certain rights and freedoms. How many hundreds of thousands of people have died in the past supposedly defending those very things? Should the horrific, unnecessary death of some 50 people render all that sacrifice moot? Does it only count when those people die in another country fighting an overt, uniformed enemy?
Terrorists, obviously, seek to cause as much fear and disruption to the ‘normal way of life’ as possible. By revoking certain rights and curtailing certain freedoms you only show that yes, we are indeed afraid. Mission accomplished Mr. Terrorist.
I know, upon review, that it seems as though I am speaking callously of those people murdered today. That is most certainly not my intention. My hands still shake as I type and today’s events will be ingrained into my memories for a long time to come.
Thank you. I wish the same for you and yours.
Originally posted by ** Diogenes the Cynic**
So you do blame the Americans for the London bombings?
I do not see the war in Iraq as justice served. I see it only as revenge embraced.