If revenge were the goal, we would have left with Saddam in tow while dusting our hands off with callous glee.
Instead we are rebuilding the entire country and improving the lives of the citizens at great cost, both in money and lives.
Indirectly, yes.
Care to elaborate exactly on how the bombings in London are America’s fault? This I gots to hear.
-XT
kingpengvin, rayh,
First, my list of things to be done was by know means meant to be comprehensive. It was a quick reply to an inquiry. But, yes, doing those things wouild make us safer. Certainly not less safe.
As far as civil rights. I, too, am a great respecterr of civil rights. And I think we should have as much and as many civil rights as the times allow. In moments of threat, they may need to, responsibly, be dialed back. In moments of great peace and tranquility, I’m all for increasing them. Why doesn’t this make perfect sense?
Was that the objective of the invasion ? Nice spin on things.
Because rights are alot easier to give up then they are to get back. Ben Franklin understood that very well. Let them go for a sense of safety in a time of fear, and you may never see them again.
It’s simple No illegal war = no bombings.
The strong possibility of increased terrorism against the US and its allies was an easily forseeable result of our invasion of Iraq. Bush knew at the time he lied his way into the war and suckered Blair into going along with him that there could be retaliation against either country. The risk of such repurcussions was not justified by any defensive necessity for the invasion. The bombings in London are therefore an indirect, yet predictable consequence of a corrupt and cynical decision made by Bush to stage an illegal assault on Iraq.
Man, some people never learn from history. Just like it wasn’t over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor, it’s not over now!
Perhaps because rights aren’t rights only when it’s convenient. Rights are rights all the time; they are not ours because government allows them to be so, but because we are human beings. Rights which are beholden to the whim of the government are not rights, but privileges bestowed upon subjects.
(Man, where’s Liberal when you need him?)
BTW, what exactly do you mean when you suggest that mosques be required to “cooperate”? Random searches of mosques without warrants? Handing over lists of worshippers to authorities? Or do you have something in mind which wouldn’t fly in the face of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution?
Treating terrorism as just another crime, one that can be solved and prevented by police work is what has allowed to the problem to grom over the past twenty years. I’ve not mentioned anything about military action abroad, my comments have been restricted to the home front. And I’m all for locking up all those responsible. But I’m just as interested–if not more–in preventing the next group of murderers to carry out their plans.
Life. Civilization.
Not 100% sure that no illegal war = no bombings.
But I do think it is a factor since we should never ever forget the fact that huge resources were diverted from hunting Al-qaeda to the misguided war in Iraq, add to that what Kos pointed on the ineptitude of this administration on disrupting the hunt for Al-qaeda cells in England:
When fighting crime you look for patterns, you hope for patterns. You take an isolated incident and try to equate that with the long pattern of attacks Islamo-terrorists have perpertrated on the civilized world? That’s just ridiculous, to use a word that is no doubt way to mild.
Typical “liberal” response-- create a victim where none exists.
Are you serioiusly aserting that the Brits are incapble of making their own decisions? Didn’t the Downing Street memo prove that the Brits knew in advance that Bush was pushing for war no matter what?
Blair went into the Iraq war with his eyes fully open. And he continues to support the war of his own will. Any claim otherwise is an insult to British and their government.
And Abraham Lincoln understood that desperate times may call for desperate measures when he suspended habeas corpus.
Feel free to insult our government. They obviously didn’t think the general public were capable of making their own decisions. As evidenced by their misleading us before the referendum on the war.
Blair may have had his eyes open but his hands were covering everyone else’s.
Well we could see other patterns too ? Like constant meddling in islamic countries… constant toppling of regimes all over the third world. No ? Things don’t happen out of the blue… either you cut the evil from the root… or your just reacting to things. Killing a terrorist in one place while giving the next generation a reason for Jihad isn’t solving anything. What you suggested is a remedial solution that only worsen things long term.
The problem is the broad strokes you suggest and throwing all muslims into the “may be terrorist” category. Especially when muslims living in the west are and will be a major factor in changing things in the Middle East. People go back and take with them some of the western cultural values that will corrode Islamic societies “backwardness”.
Complete speculation on your part…and inaccurate too IMHO. After all, there were plenty of bombings BEFORE we invaded Iraq (9/11 immediately springs to mind as an example). Granted, there hadn’t been any in London prior to that…but maybe the terrorist just hadn’t gotten around to them yet.
As to Iraq…well, we didn’t exactly drag the Brits in kicking and screaming against their will. They went along with the ‘illegal’ war just fine…AND they just voted Blair back into office for another term as well despite Iraq. So…I’m not seeing how its the US’s fault yet that London got bombed…even indirectly our fault. Cause and effect, I could make as good a case that its the Europeans fault for this mess in the first place (I can think of several historical incidents that lead to this at various times in history)…or I could make the case that the REAL group responsible is Bin Laden and his merry band who want power in the ME, and that its all just an excuse for them to do what they want.
Why just the invasion of Iraq? I’d think that Afghanistan would be more of the key to be honest…after all, AQ was pretty close to the Taliban AND they had bases in Afghanistan. You seem to be putting all this on Iraq and the ‘illegal’ war, and while I agree with you it was a stupid thing for the US/UK to stick our collective cranks into, it seems to me that Afghanistan is more of the key, or at least enough of a key, to pissing off the terrorists and making them want to come after us. Iraq is just an excuse…Afghanistan though was the real deal. And its hard for me to imagine any other outcome in Afghanistan that DIDN’T have the US and the UK (and many other nations) involved there.
-XT
There are a few comments here that attempt to “link” the war in Iraq with attacks on the west. At least Diogynes has the courage of his conviction. Guys you can’t have it both ways. It seems that you want to attribute the cause to the war but are to chicken to come right out and say it. This is similar to some spaghetti-spine liberals in the US that insist that they support the troops but then celebrate every time there’s bad news (for us) from Iraq.
And I’d like to point out that these murders were commiting their atrocities BEFORE we went to Iraq. Remember 9/11? Or the string of attacks going back 25 years? Blame America. Blame George Bush…George Bush bad…war bad…George Bush evil… He and the honorabl Tony Blair are gonn save your sorry asses in spite of yourselves.
Excellent discussion point. I’m all for making the lives of Muslim terrorists and those who support them as miserable and uncomfartable as possible. But for those who join in the fight AGAINST them, I embrace them. I idolize them and hold them up to the world as shining examples of how decency and peace can prevail of murder and hate.
I also think it is important that we act honorably in our theaters of war abroad. We should support the peoples right to govern themselves and live happy productive lives.
It ceratinly doesn’t make terrorist organizations happy with us. 