[QUOTE=Sri Theo]
Psst, Diogenes most of the shows you’re watching have been written by guild members, before they went on strike- check out elenfairs previous thread if you want to know how many episodes are left of shows you follow, before they run out.
[/QUOTE]
Don’t waste your time, Theo. Diogenes has a conduit to all divine beings. Heck, he’s God’s very own Mary Sue.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
I’m not a moron. I know what a rerun is. I know that some new eps were already in the can or on the page. I don’t think I’ve watched any freshly scripted shows, nor do I think I’ve watch anything scripted by non-guild members. What I meant was that I don’t the the UNscripted shows are any worse than the scripted, that most scripted shows are garbage anyway, and that the overall quality of television has not suffered much without new episodes of lousy sitcoms or endless permutations of Law & Order.
[/QUOTE]
But I really enjoyed the return of Law & Order: Original Flavor. Jeremy Sisto seems like a good addition to the cast and it’s funny seeing Green as the grizzled old veteran for a change.
But I do agree with you that unscripted shows are not some horrible pit of television nothingness. The next Survivor looks great, the current Amazing Race is one of the best seasons ever and American Gladiators is coming back. What’s not to love about that?
I also agree that it’ll be a cold day in hell before the Oscars gets canceled. And if they are I’d consider that pretty shitty of the writers. For a huge number of cast people, the Oscars is the one time a year they get recognized for all that other work that’s needed to turn a movie into something great.
Psst…Justin_… reality shows use writers. They’re just not members of the union.
On edit: Most of the people who get recognized on the broadcast award shows sure as hell do get recognition; you’ve heard of all of them, usually. The people - techs, usually - who don’t get recognized on the big shows probably won’t mind if their tiny, barely-broadcast ceremony doesn’t happen.
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
I also agree that it’ll be a cold day in hell before the Oscars gets canceled. And if they are I’d consider that pretty shitty of the writers. For a huge number of cast people, the Oscars is the one time a year they get recognized for all that other work that’s needed to turn a movie into something great.
[/QUOTE]
Pencils down means pencils down, damn it.
We’re not going to make exceptions for the big corporate do. We DID make an exception (waiver) for the Independent Spirit Awards.
The Oscars are a big corporate event. We’re not talking about recognizing the little guy. We’re talking about millions and millions of dollars, if not more, tossed around. Sponsors, diamonds, parties before and after, bodyguards and armed guards, hundreds of thousands of dollars on finger food for the esteemed guests… the “recognized crew”? Yeah, most of those awards are given on that other event before the big night. Writers who write the show? Not there. Camera crews, lighting crews? Working tails off that night. No parties for those poor bastards. It’s maaa-aaa-aaaagiiiiic.
Yeah, shitty of the writers to say you know what? No. Not gonna play the part for one night so the Big Company can have its magic. We’re still fighting for our contracts out here on the lines, it’s been 10 weeks and the AMPTP is not even BACK to the table. So hell no, we’re not going to grant you a pass for an event. If we keep doing that, what’s the point? Deal with it. Give us a fair deal and we’ll talk.
Simple, really. That’s what labor disagreements are about.
I think it’s shitty of the other side not to negotiate so the actors can’t have their “special day”. Hell, it’s shitty of them not to sit down and negotiate so no one can go back to work. And in June, the actors’ contracts run out too.
So really, it’s just shitty all around.
Yay for poop! 
[QUOTE=Hamadryad]
Psst…Justin_… reality shows use writers. They’re just not members of the union.
[/quote]
You say writer, I say editor/producer, it’s not the same thing and I really hate this argument. I’m sure someone writes quite a bit of Jeff’s spiel during tribal council, but “reality show” is just a fancy word for “game show” and any writing is just a natural reaction to events of the show.
[QUOTE=Elenfair]
Pencils down means pencils down, damn it.
[/quote]
It’s cute that you think people give a damn about the lame slogan you keep repeating over and over and over and over and…
::pencils down, damn it::
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
You say writer, I say editor/producer, it’s not the same thing and I really hate this argument. I’m sure someone writes quite a bit of Jeff’s spiel during tribal council, but “reality show” is just a fancy word for “game show” and any writing is just a natural reaction to events of the show.
[/QUOTE]
Huge difference, buddy. Huge industry difference. Reality shows employ writers. The WGA is, in fact, attempting to make sure they are protected under the new Basic Agreement. They are currently called “Segment Producers”, for some shows, if they are not already in our Union.
Any voice-over segment of a reality show is scripted. Any host segment is, for the most part, scripted. Any question segment is scripted. The only non-scripted segment involves the contestant.
Game-shows, too, employ writers. Some of them are WGA writers. Many are not, under the current contracts.
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
It’s cute that you think people give a damn about the lame slogan you keep repeating over and over and over and over and…
:: pencils down, damn it::
[/QUOTE]
I’m supplying answers to questions.
If you want to pass judgment on a group of people currently on strike, attempting to get their fair share and make a living – while you apparently have a tenuous understanding of the issues at hand – please refrain from making these kinds of statements, okay?
I’m going on 10 weeks without work, having to deal with fighting ignorance on a daily basis, and being told that what we do sucks anyway. Well, if everyone’s so damned clever, I wish them luck in breaking out in the business their damned selves. If it works out, we’ll all be glad to have you on board.
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
You say writer, I say editor/producer, it’s not the same thing and I really hate this argument. I’m sure someone writes quite a bit of Jeff’s spiel during tribal council, but “reality show” is just a fancy word for “game show” and any writing is just a natural reaction to events of the show.
[/QUOTE]
No more than writing a memoir is a natural reaction to events of a life. A standard reality show will use less than 2% of the footage shot. Someone decides what to keep, what to cut, and most importantly, what story to tell with the footage that’s left. If you look carefully, often “arguments” on screen never happened - they edit conversation from one day into conversation from another day and make it look as if it was the same conversation, taking all sorts of things out of context to make it look like people are disagreeing, or wooing or whatever they like. It’d be as if I took these tidbits from this thread and mixed 'em all up to tell a vignette of my own devising:
Only, y’know, better than that, because I’m not a professional writer.
[QUOTE=Elenfair]
Huge difference, buddy. Huge industry difference. Reality shows employ writers. The WGA is, in fact, attempting to make sure they are protected under the new Basic Agreement. They are currently called “Segment Producers”, for some shows, if they are not already in our Union.
[/QUOTE]
But they’re not writers in the sense that you’re a writer right? Because what they do is edit footage to create a story right? Hmm, maybe that distinction is why they’re not “writers.”
[QUOTE=Elenfair]
I’m going on 10 weeks without work, having to deal with fighting ignorance on a daily basis, and being told that what we do sucks anyway.
[/QUOTE]
And frankly, this attitude has made you a bit hard to be around on the boards. In your mind you’re completely in the right and whenever a discussion about the writer’s strike comes up you bitch and moan about how low paid you are, how little recognition you get, how evil the producers are and how wonderful and amazing every writer is.
All writers are not created equal and that’s why I think the idea of a writer’s union is even more absurd than most unions.
And while I don’t think what you do “sucks,” I still believe that the next 12,000 people would be just as talented as the current 12,000 writers on strike. And I’m sorry that you’d rather stick your fingers in your ear and go la-la-la-la-la than hear that, but too bad.
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
And frankly, this attitude has made you a bit hard to be around on the boards.
[/QUOTE]
Well, thank God the rest of us have you to speak for us. :rolleyes: FTR I do believe she and the other strikers are completely in the right. They have the right to fair compensation for their work.
Oh, we have our share of really shitty writers. Just like there are bad teamsters. And bad makeup artists.
But most of us are good at what we do.
In the end, we just want fair compensation for our work. Not getting any money for our work (in the case of internet sales) is not fair, no matter how you try to slice it. If you ask us to write you a webisode (take that one The Office, Emmy-winning webisode, for example) and then not only declare that you don’t have to pay us for it but tell us that we’re not seeing any residuals for it and then make hundreds of thousands of dollars off it? You’re kindly invited to go take a short walk off the Chelsea Pier with Robert Goren’s size 13 shoe up your ass.
As for the reality show writers, no. What they do is not just “edit footage”. They sit down and write monologues and voice-over scripts. You know, the stuff the host or voice-over guy reads over segments? That stuff has to be written by someone. The actual editing part gets handled by the episode director and the editing team, not the writing staff. Reality show writing staffs write:
Writers don’t usually handle any segment editing – producers will, however, craft continuity. Directors WILL work the editing.
[QUOTE=Justin_Bailey]
And frankly, this attitude has made you a bit hard to be around on the boards. In your mind you’re completely in the right
[/QUOTE]
She is. 100%.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
They’ll make a deal for the Oscars. No matter what Equipoise says, the actors won’t put their fashionable little “cause” ahead of their annual circle jerk. The actors are going to tire quickly of this little “backing the writers” fad and want to get back in front of cameras. Actors are attention junkies and junkies need their fix.
[/QUOTE]
Wrecking the Golden Globes via actor no-shows will likely frighten the networks into being more reasonable in talks with the WGA. I’ll bet good money the writer’s strike is over before the Oscars, in part because of that.
And Justin_Bailey,
If you think the only thing they do on reality shows is edit tape, you’re nuts. There’s a lot of scripted stuff on most reality shows; just watch one of the episodes of “Pirate Master” and tell me those people aren’t acting lines.
If Elenfair is right, she’s right. There’s no point in her pretending she’s wrong.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
They’ll make a deal for the Oscars. No matter what Equipoise says, the actors won’t put their fashionable little “cause” ahead of their annual circle jerk. The actors are going to tire quickly of this little “backing the writers” fad and want to get back in front of cameras. Actors are attention junkies and junkies need their fix.
[/QUOTE]
Actually, yes they will put their “little cause” ahead of their “circle jerk”. The actors’ contract is up next. Whatver the writers get the actors will want (and will get) too.
Writers deserve fair compensation and I’m glad the union is sticking it out and going to bat to ensure that their members get fair compensation. So you think that the next 12,000 random writers could do just as good a job as the current 12,000 writers. I disagree, but let’s say they could: they still deserve fair compensation for the work they do.
Elenfair, I think I’ve said it before, but I really appreciate your contributions to these threads, and appreciate even more the fact that you can put up with continuing ignorance and jackassery from other posters while still maintaining your patience. Most impressive, and I assure you I would not be able to do the same.
The Oscars are to me what the Superbowl is to everyone else. But, I admire that the big Hollywood types are acknowledging and respecting the writer’s strike.
[QUOTE=Indygrrl]
The Oscars are to me what the Superbowl is to everyone else. But, I admire that the big Hollywood types are acknowledging and respecting the writer’s strike.
[/QUOTE]
There’s a huge amount of solidarity between the Hollywood Unions. The contract that we get, especially that sticky Internet problem we’re trying to resolve and ALL the issues surrounding residuals, will affect more than just the WGA. It will affect the actors – SAG and AFTRA both. It may affect the Directors. It will affect Teamsters (their pension and their benefit plans were built upon our residuals negotiations). It will affect the Musicians (AFM) - dangerous precedents will be set with this “promotional use” language…
The other thing is, of course, that actors know that while we are at the bottom of the food chain in Hollywood, writers are the people who put words in their mouths. Yes, it’s all done with humor and good intentions.
I have received a handful of emails from actors from work with words of encouragement. They’re standing behind us in solidarity and, jokingly, out of fear that if they don’t, we’d make them say all SORTS of really nasty things once we’re back on the air…
[QUOTE=alphaboi867]
Actually, yes they will put their “little cause” ahead of their “circle jerk”. The actors’ contract is up next. Whatver the writers get the actors will want (and will get) too.
[/QUOTE]
The actors will always get whatever they want. Actors are the industry. Actors are important. Television writers are just industry bottom feeders. If they had any talent, they wouldn’t be writing for television. I won’t say anybody can do it, but anybody who can write can do it once they get accustomed to the format (and I will say that anybody can write the scripted parts of reality shows. It doesn’t take much imagination to write “Welcome to tribal council”). It’s not some incredibly special ability that only a few people are gifted with. It’s also not very important. These people are acting like they’re firefighters or brain surgeons or something. Their “work” is not needed. Humanity can soldier on just fine without any more CSI episodes. The longer this goes on, the more I find myself rooting for the studios to crush the WGA like insects. I’ve never seen a union that was so self-important with so little justification. Let them flip burgers. Hollywood owes them nothing. Whatever they get paid is already too much. As far as I’m concerned, it’s time to make the writers pay dearly for giving us decade after decade of banal, formulaic witless crap.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
These people are acting like they’re firefighters or brain surgeons or something. Their “work” is not needed. Humanity can soldier on just fine without any more CSI episodes.
[/QUOTE]
You know, I don’t think a single person anywhere has ever implied that television shows or movies are vital to the survival of the species. I think the studios and networks are the ones who get to decide if Union writers bring enough profits to their non-vital industry to make working with them important. I think your self-important sneering condescension is unbecoming, but not at all out of character.
And I don’t watch TV, so it’s not like I have a vested interest in defending the writing on my “favorite shows.”
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
The actors will always get whatever they want. Actors are the industry. Actors are important. Television writers are just industry bottom feeders. If they had any talent, they wouldn’t be writing for television…
[/QUOTE]
Um, just what do you imagine actors doing without writers? :rolleyes: You can’t just put a bunch of people on a set and tell them to wing it (well sometimes you can). And you realize that it’s not just TV writers that are on stike; film writers are on strike too. The only difference is that films have a longer development cycle and studios haven’t run out of scrips yet.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
The actors will always get whatever they want. Actors are the industry. Actors are important. Television writers are just industry bottom feeders. If they had any talent, they wouldn’t be writing for television.
[/QUOTE]
Awww, thanks!
I’ll pass that on to the Pulitzer Nominees who write for television with me. They’ll be thrilled to know. 
Elly, enjoying her life as a Sea Cucumber.