Looks like no Golden Globes or Oscars this year

Cafe Society
41

[QUOTE=alphaboi867]
Um, just what do you imagine actors doing without writers? :rolleyes: You can’t just put a bunch of people on a set and tell them to wing it (well sometimes you can).
[/quote]

When it comes to television, having the actors improvise couldn’t be any worse than performing the written scripts. Some of the sitcoms might even accidentally get some laughs.

There are millions of unproduced scripts in Hollywood. They could survive for 20 years on what they already own. I think a long strike could actually help the movies for two reasons – for one, the studios would have to dig a little and maybe produce a few quality, original scripts instead of endless sequels and remakes, and for another, (if I have my information right) they would have to produce those scripts as written and would not be allowed to change or doctor or rewrite anything. That would be awesome.

42

a) If there were better writers out there, wouldn’t they be hired instead?
b) Who do you think are responsible for deciding we need more CSI clones?
c) Clearly, enough people like watching witless sitcoms and CSI clones, that - imagine this - more of them need to be written. Hence, someone should get paid fairly to write them, whether you happen to like them or not.

43

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]

There are millions of unproduced scripts in Hollywood. They could survive for 20 years on what they already own. (…) (if I have my information right) they would have to produce those scripts as written and would not be allowed to change or doctor or rewrite anything. That would be awesome.
[/QUOTE]

Have you ever read the stuff at www.fanfiction.com?

(By the way: What they “own” are spec scripts and treatments. Those are, in no way, shooting scripts.)

44

[QUOTE=Elenfair]
Have you ever read the stuff at www.fanfiction.com?

(By the way: What they “own” are spec scripts and treatments. Those are, in no way, shooting scripts.)
[/QUOTE]

Oh bullshit. The studios have tons of scripts that aren’t written by amateurs and a good director could work just fine with a spec script.

45

[QUOTE=drewbert]
a) If there were better writers out there, wouldn’t they be hired instead?
b) Who do you think are responsible for deciding we need more CSI clones?
c) Clearly, enough people like watching witless sitcoms and CSI clones, that - imagine this - more of them need to be written. Hence, someone should get paid fairly to write them, whether you happen to like them or not.
[/QUOTE]

Drewbert – you are absolutely right. One must be careful not to make mighty declarations as if one is an all-knowing industry insider – otherwise, one risks looking like a total tool.

Networks operate by the Law of Ratings. If a formula works, they’ll apply it, reproduce it, and see if it sticks. CSI spun two child series - Miami and NY. Both are holding their own in ratings. JAG spun off NCIS, the little show that could, and it’s even growing in popularity now in its fifth season. These are all crime procedurals based on the CSI model, one with the JAG/Navy theme behind it. The creators involved are not newbies - Donald Bellisario, Carol Mendelsohn… old hats at successful syndicated shows. We’re talking legends, here.

When fall comes around, groups get together and start working on Pilots for the next season. They slave over concepts, prepare scripts, treatments, episodes, shoot a pilot and pray the Network likes what they see. What does the Network look for? SOMETHING THEY CAN SELL. They look at what they’ve got in their lineup. They look at their competitors’ lineups. They look at the ratings, the market research, they look at the projections for next year. It has nothing to do with what WE necessarily want to do. It has to do with WHAT WILL SELL and what advertisers will feel comfortable with. Sometimes it has something to do with the showrunner… but that’s extremely rare.

Yeah, so, someone here might think that television writing sucks. I happen to think Whedon writes quite well. Espensen, Balcer and Leight too. The WGA includes movie writers too – from those who write comedies to those who write the deep, dark dramas. All of the television writers here, under my wing as a strike captain, are actually also playwrights. They can’t be all terrible writers, now can they.

46

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Oh bullshit. The studios have tons of scripts that aren’t written by amateurs and a good director could work just fine with a spec script.
[/QUOTE]

And you know this because…

47

[QUOTE=Equipoise]
I was going to just put this in the Awards Season thread, but this is big news for those who follow such things, so I thought it deserves a thread of its own.

With the Writers Guild of America strike going on, no member of the sister union Screen Actors Guild will cross a picket line, so no one will dare show their face at either event, as a nominee, a presenter or just to provide wattage. No TV stars. No movie stars. No up-n-comers. No nobody. I’m an awards show junkie and awards season slut, but I’m very happy about this. The writers are in the right, dammit and picket lines are serious business. Anyone who crosses the WGA picket lines will find themselves on a massive shit list, a bad thing in the close-knit movie/TV industry. And Guild members have long memories.
Yeah, but there’s prbably a down side to it somewhere… :smiley:

48

[QUOTE=drewbert]
a) If there were better writers out there, wouldn’t they be hired instead?
[/quote]

Not if they can write films or novels instead. No writer dreams of writing Drake and Josh scripts and if they don’t have to, they don’t.

This much I agree with. CSI clones get produced because audiences are undiscriminating and shallow enough to watch them and they like predictability. But even if the writers are just turning out the color-by-number scripts that the studios want, then they’re still making a choice to be whores instead of creators. If they want to be whores, they should be treated like whores. They’re not heros or martyrs.

I remember feeling the same way a few years ago when commercial actors (actors who erform in commercials) went on strike. It was impossible for me to feel any respect or sympathy for people who worked in such a loathesome profession.

49

Are we going to get another episode of House out of this skirmish?

:waiting anxiously:

50

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Oh bullshit. The studios have tons of scripts that aren’t written by amateurs and a good director could work just fine with a spec script.
[/QUOTE]
Of course, if the actors keep respecting the picket lines like they are for the awards shows then you are filming a spec script with no actors. You think the movie going public will pay eight bucks to watch waiters and bussboys read a spec script because McG is the director?

That’s not even getting into the fact that a director may want to make changes that he won’t be able to make without somebody doing a rewrite.

51

[QUOTE=Harborwolf]
Of course, if the actors keep respecting the picket lines like they are for the awards shows then you are filming a spec script with no actors. You think the movie going public will pay eight bucks to watch waiters and bussboys read a spec script because McG is the director?

That’s not even getting into the fact that a director may want to make changes that he won’t be able to make without somebody doing a rewrite.
[/QUOTE]

Like I said, the actors will soon grow tired of their fashionable soldarity. They can only live so long without being in front of a camera. Their support won’t last forever.

52

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Like I said, the actors will soon grow tired of their fashionable soldarity. They can only live so long without being in front of a camera. Their support won’t last forever.
[/QUOTE]
And it’s not as if they have millions of dollars to support themselves. Poor dears could starve while they wait for the strike to end.

Hollywood is a union town and everyone of them is watching this deal to see how it will affect their own deal farther on down the road. They’ll hold out if for no other reason than their greed will win out over their lust for attention. :rolleyes:

53

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
…Television writers are just industry bottom feeders. If they had any talent, they wouldn’t be writing for television…
[/QUOTE]

Again, if you had any idea what you were talking about, you’d be horrified at what you’re saying. Writing television is the only way to be financially solvent for many writers. It’s damn hard getting movie scripts bought, let alone produced, let alone doing this enough times to get noticed.

I don’t really care about what else you said, I just wanted to make sure this was cleared up for those watching at home.

(Also, I don’t know who said it first, but for everyone in this thread who is getting annoyed with the rest of his tirade, just pretend he’s Comic Book Guy and it’s hilarious. “The WGA is the worst. union. ever.” You get the idea.)

54

The writers are in the right when it comes to fair payment and residuals, and I sincerely hope they get their just compensation, because they earn and deserve it.

However, as far as I am concerned, they are absolutely not in the right when it comes to forcing animation and reality writers to join, but that’s a problem I have with the utterly ridiculous guild system, not fairness towards iondividual writing contributions. As long as the WAG insists on forcing people to join their club, I can’t support the strike. Can’t do it.

Going after Leno and shutting down awards season is going to haunt them. I really believe that.

55

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Like I said, the actors will soon grow tired of their fashionable soldarity. They can only live so long without being in front of a camera. Their support won’t last forever.
[/QUOTE]

'course you forget that their contract runs out in June. And they, too, want to see residuals for their work that’s getting sold online. They’re not getting anything for that either. And AMPTP said they’re not getting anything for it, either. Oh my!

Just like with WGA, not all SAG/AFTRA actors are the “big staaahs” that make the huge-ass salaries AMPTP likes telling us all about. Not all actors are the ones you seem to think are so fickle they’re going to need to be back in front of cameras. Without scripts. Or directors. Or crews.

Sorry dude. You’re talkin’ out of your ass because you think you know how this industry works. You have this stereotype of the Hollywood Star in your head and you can’t shake it - the one you’ve seen on television, or in the news maybe… or in the few brief “real life encounters” you may have had. If any.

I work with these people. I’ve worked with these people for a long time. I’ve written the words they say, the falls they’ve taken, and sent the “Go you!” notes when they’ve had their kids. I’ve written their characters out, in, temporarily stuck behind counters to hide pregnancies, out for a few weeks because of a movie shoot, out of scenes because their mother died, into scenes because their kid was graduating from college and out of others so they could go to the ceremony… Trust me, they’re going to stand with us far longer than you think.

Stop pretending that you have half a clue what it’s like to be in this industry. If you actually HAVE industry facts to share, then do. If you’re making wild guesses about these people, then say they’re wild-ass guesses. Don’t pass judgment. It only makes you look like a tool.

56

[QUOTE=ArizonaTeach]

However, as far as I am concerned, they are absolutely not in the right when it comes to forcing animation and reality writers to join, but that’s a problem I have with the utterly ridiculous guild system, not fairness towards iondividual writing contributions. As long as the WAG insists on forcing people to join their club, I can’t support the strike. Can’t do it.

[/QUOTE]

Woah woah woah. Backtrack.

You do realize that the only animation writers who were able to join the guild were the writers for FOX who walked out on the job, right? Because they really wanted Guild protection (you know, minimum benefits, a contract, a pension plan, residuals, returns on syndication, payment for DVDs sold) and FOX realized that if they said “No, you can’t join the WGA” they would lose The Simpsons, King of the Hill, Family Guy, Futurama… and so on… right?

Yeah.

And you do realize that the Reality Show writers have been trying to get under the union umbrella for a long time, right? Because being fired at will, with 18 hour work days, no benefits, no pensions, no residuals, no credited work (no writing credit, that is) and no return on syndication is really awesome!

… what we’re asking for is a not “forcing them all to join”. No. We’re asking for union jobs to open up. We’re asking for the Networks to make these positions Union positions. It’s like asking them to make these jobs “minimum wage” instead of under-the-table pay, with guaranteed benefits, residuals and proper credit for the work done.

Animation writers have been shit on for so long, it’s not funny. Reality Show writers, even more so. They have no job security at all. Many of them are young writers just getting started, with young families to feed. They can barely make ends meet, and in the end, they get little to show for their work. They’ve been forming groups, begging Networks to let them join the Union, and the Networks have said no. THAT’s why we’ve been pushing for this in these negotiations.

Why do you think AMPTP has been balking at this proposal…

57

Elenfair, maybe you could clarify something for me.

WorldWide Pants made a deal with the WGA. Do you think other production companies will follow suit, so there will be dozens of contracts instead of just one big one with AMPTP?

I’m thinking NBC and Warner Bros come to the table, hat in hand, and make an agreement, leaving ABC and CBS and Edepol and Bad Robot and other production companies scrambling to follow, since if they don’t they won’t have new scripts.

Or have I completely bungled my interpretation of the situation? I’m thinking this similar to the break-up of the Ma Bell monopoly.

58

[QUOTE=ivylass]
Elenfair, maybe you could clarify something for me.

WorldWide Pants made a deal with the WGA. Do you think other production companies will follow suit, so there will be dozens of contracts instead of just one big one with AMPTP?
[/QUOTE]

There is currently talk of an agreement with United Artists (a division of MGM owned by Tom Cruise) in the process of being finalized. It’s possible that this will start happening more and more, especially with independent companies.

Personally, I’m very curious to see what will happen with the Maus Haus (Disney) in the upcoming weeks.

59

So it’s possible that instead of an industry-wide strike in the future, maybe only one or two shows would be affected? Would the same deal be negotiated across the industry, or would each company get a tailor-made contract?

60

I’m not privy to the negotiation details for the second deal and whatever is being negotiated elsewhere, though the deals themselves are always available once we all vote on things and/or once they are passed.

I will ask for more information at the Cap’ meeting on Tuesday though. I’m curious, myself, to see how this will work out. This said – at CBS, we haven’t had contracts for the last year (at least), though CBS was still bound by our basic agreement. At NBC (and its cable offsprings), we do and we were always well covered. Go figure.