For purposes of an alignment-claim, I would recommend that we consider Boromir, Lobelia Sackville-Baggins, Radagast, Tom Bombadil, and Denethor (if any of those are in the game) as all Town, and Saruman, Gollum, and Old Man Willow as all non-Town. Incidentally, I’m pretty sure that Lurtz showed up in the books, too, and just got emphasized more in the movie.
It was in my role PM. I have not received any other communication from Mahaloth.
Yes, I know, while also putting risk on scum. One can argue for or against it based on tolerance risk. There is a trade off.
A consistency claim removes all risk from scum (it’s trivially easy to claim yes), while not removing the risk from town (by singling out certain townies). There is no trade off and it does not favor town.
and this is really fascinating to me. i mean no shit. what i remember from canon is that boromir was really working hard to defeat sauron. his methods may not have been, in hindsight, the best but he was working hard to get rid of a threat. and in the end he just gets it in the shorts protecting the ring bearer.
and crap even at the end gollum (who i would characterize as bad or third party) ended up being the one that saved the durn day.
course it cost frodo a finger, but what the hey.
As for giving extra information to the Scum, they might not worry about killing the “wrong” person (usually, at least: That was something we had to be careful of in Screamers), but some kills are still better than others for them. If I were a Scum and given the option of killing Frodo or some other random character, I’d definitely want to choose Frodo. I don’t know what exactly killing Frodo would accomplish, but I’m pretty sure it’d be bad for Town. Likewise Gandalf, and if I knew who both Frodo and Gandalf were, then I’d be killing one and doing whatever I could to hamper the other (roleblocking, say, if one of the Scum has that power). If, as Town, we can leave open the possibility of the Scum killing Fatty Bolger or someone instead of Frodo or Gandalf, that’s a good thing for us.
and chronos at the risk of cluttering the thread who in the world is lurtz?
and now we go down the slippery path.
what if gandalf were to be killed by a balrog? then he comes back stonger, right? and i was not involved in the set up in this game but would that not be a potential based on canon? i can see maha, story and sach laughing their asses off at this point.
back into the breach.
so sometimes someone comes up with an idea that is bad? and we should discuss it? and if turns out that the idea was bad (i am assuming that equates to bad for town) then we just dismiss it, right?
but i thought bad for town equals scum based on earlier posts. why shouldn’t we just nail them at that point since that is an indicator of being scum?
His claim is one reason. His suggestion that the fellowship claim is another. That’s a number of reasons right there. I also didn’t think his snarky comments about other posters earlier in the thread helped the town, but I didn’t feel that that warranted mentioning. On day 1, I don’t really have much else to go for. My evidence against Chronos when I was questioning him was arguably just as flimsy, but nobody had an issue with that.
As for USCDiver, I was content with my reading of Chronos’ case. But I missed a vital piece of information in my reading of it, which, in review, made him seem more town to me. I’m getting crucified here for changing my mind three days before the day ends, and I have to wonder if some of the people questioning me aren’t trying to cement me as an early lynch candidate.
Yes, if scum had access to a PM, they’d be willing to offer up more info to help their case. But we’re assuming they have access to a PM. We have only circumstantial evidence that that’s the case. If he had said “I agree with all of them” and offered nothing more, as I first thought Chronos was saying, my vote would still be on him.
But that’s not the case. I went and checked, and I’m no longer so convinced. He made a good faith effort to add information, information that could possibly be used against him if he was scum. This doesn’t mean he’s town, but my suspicious eye was content to move elsewhere for the time being.
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I got the name/alignment congruence idea from lost mafia. It poses no risk to town and provides town information that is currently only available to scum (who know multiple characters names). We’ll probably find out by Day 3 the general shape of the canon in this game (most likely 4 dead), but this gives us a good idea today.
Oh, someone remind me to reread Gadarene Tomorrow. I continue to be happy with my vote, but I had an early ping there I want to visit in the next game day.
To repeat for peeker and others who do not read for comprehension: suggesting ideas (even bad ideas) is pro-town. Discussing ideas (even bad ideas) is pro-town. Actually doing bad ideas is anti-town.
If you think it poses no risk for town are you suggesting that no townie has an incongruent name/alignment? Or, are you suggesting there is no risk of lynching and no risk of being preferentially killed by non-town for any townie whose name and alignment are incongruent?
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. I got the name/alignment congruence idea from lost mafia. It poses no risk to town and provides town information that is currently only available to scum (who know multiple characters names). We’ll probably find out by Day 3 the general shape of the canon in this game (most likely 4 dead), but this gives us a good idea today.
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this post bothers me tremendously. i understand that i will have now pissed off a significant number of folks in this game but …
i did not play in lost so take that as you will. but even if i had i would no more being making a conclusion about scum knowledge as it relates to this game. certainly if this in fact a metagame observation then i would understand, but it doesn’t read that way to me. and the fact that you are predicting deaths on Day 1 for Day 3 makes me highly nervous. but shoot i am always like that so take it with a grain of salt.
I was thinking about **Chronos **and his information, and I came up with the following:
He says that he’s confident that he can tell whether or not the person has a power from the name they are given. That would mean the person is someone like Gandalf or Aragorn (power), or Odo Proudfoot or Barliman Butterbur (no power), rather than, say, Gimli or Merry (could go either way). But what makes Chronos think he can tell this from the name? I’m guessing that Chronos has a ‘powerful’ identity, and that he’s extrapolating that to the rest of the game.
So what does this tell us? I take it as evidence that the roles in this game do align with the canon, and that the ‘powerful’ characters are more likely to have powers in game (something that I already assumed without having any evidence whatsoever). Whether or not there is any other value to this, I don’t know.
Chronos says that he will reveal the name before the end of the Day, unless he has a pressing reason not to. I’ve stated before that I don’t think he should reveal anything at this point. So, let’s see if I have a reason for him to keep silent.
First, let’s assume that the character in question is a ‘non-power’ character. It’s some Hobbit from Bilbo’s party, or some minor character from the Council of Rivendell. If Chronos reveals the name, confirming the existence of ‘minor’ characters, it gives non-Town a much larger pool of names to choose from in creating cover identities. That could make it more difficult to sniff out Scum.
If, on the other hand, he reveals the existence of a ‘power’ character, what does that tell us? It’s not going to surprise anyone to learn that ‘Elrond’ is in fact a character in this game. But what might do is help the Scum to locate Elrond. Since Chronos knows who Elrond is, everything he does will be examined to try to find a clue as to Elrond’s identity. Chronos will have to be very careful who he defends, for example, or he might inadvertently give something away. I don’t know how big a risk it is, but the risk is non-zero.
The benefit to Chronos ability seems to be that he can prevent a mis-lynch by revealing his information (both role and player). But the value of his ability is diminished by the fact that it is no longer secret. It is advantageous for the Scum to eliminate him before he is able to name the player, so the Town has one less confirmed Townie. But what is the risk/reward if Chronos is killed before he reveals the role only? (Yes, I am assuming that Chronos will be taken out of the game early, though that is by no means certain).
If Chronos stays silent, then the reward is to the Scum, because he takes his knowledge with him to the grave. The Town is left not knowing for certain whether or not Elrond (or possibly Barliman Butterbur) is actually in the game, and more importantly without the possibility of Chronos confirming a Townie. The big payoff to the Town comes when Chronos reveals the name ***and ***the associated player, but only under the correct circumstances (to avoid a mis-lynch, or perhaps several Days down the line when adding a confirmed Townie might tip the balance of the game). Of course, revealing both at this point is out of the question.
I don’t think there is any compelling reason for Chronos to reveal the name at this point, and there is some risk, though I will admit it is slight. Whether or not that counts as a compelling reason for him not to, I’m not sure.
I think this is ridiculous.
I don’t think he was asking for a repeat of your other reasons. Guiri wanted to know why you unvoted Pleo based on the arguments he (i.e. Pleo) and I gave against one of your reasons, that being that you didn’t like Pleo’s idea. You had other reasons you found Pleo suspicious, so what was it about the one we specifically countered that made you change your vote.
It’s a good question from Guiri, and I’d like to know the answer as well.
You’re not the only one who thinks that way.
You didn’t answer the main point I raised. Why would the Scum have any reason to say SAHM on their own board, rather than saying “we” or “us”? It seems odd for the Scum to use an acronym to refer to themselves on their own private board. If anything, I think the use of that acronym makes him more likely to be Town rather than Scum.
Except that if his reveal can confirm a townie name, that name is open for claiming later. If falsely claimed by scum, a counterclaim is likely to come out, because trading a confirmed town for a scum is a winning move. If it is truly claimed by a townie, you have a confirmed townie, which is a winning move.
Masons don’t always have to full claim. If one mason gets exposed, that mason can reveal role-names and the count of the other masons. Those other masons can then claim at their own leisure, or counter-claim any scum crazy enough to try to claim masonry.
The potential benefits outweigh the potential negatives in my view.
Okay, now that I’ve caught up with the rest of the thread…my role name is consistent with my alignment, canon-wise.
As for Chronos, I get the feeling that perhaps the person whose player and role name he knows about perhaps may have a couple of votes. Otherwise, I am not sure why waiting until Wednesday is necessary. Either do it or don’t, but don’t dilly-dally around. Make a decision and stick with it. I can see the arguments on both sides, so I’ll trust whatever he decides. But if it might potentially save a Townie, especially if that person is getting some votes right now, it might be best to come out with it sooner rather than later.
OK, this makes sense to me.
This part makes less sense. I understand what you’re saying about Masons, but Chronos isn’t claiming to be a Mason. Or is this just a specific example of what you were saying in the first paragraph?
I admit that my potential negatives were slight. The benefits you point out contain a lot of ‘ifs’; I guess I’ve been looking for something more concrete. Of course, I’m not likely to find anything like that, am I?
I think is the most damning evidence actually. That you would place a vote based solely on another player’s reasoning (even one who you may consider to be Town) and not doing any further examination of that evidence is quite scummy. Just a ‘me too’ vote essentially. The fact that you back-slid a short time later does little to assuage my suspicions of you.