LoTR--re: wizards' staffs etc.

Cafe Society
1

Here’s a question: What, really, is the connection between the Istari and their staffs?

They seem to have some central importance to their use of power (a la a magic wand):

  • Saruman’s accusation against Gandalf: “Yes, when you also have the keys of Barad-dur itself, I suppose, and the crowns of seven kings and the rods of the Five Wizards, and have purchased yourself a pair of boots many sizes larger than those you wear now.”

  • Saruman confiscates Gandalf’s staff before imprisoning him atop Orthanc

  • Wormtongue warns the guards to forbid Gandalf from bringing his staff inside Theoden’s hall

  • Gandalf breaks Saruman’s staff when he casts him out of the order

Yet, there’s the thorny problem of Gandalf leaving Orthanc by eagle, without his staff. He gets another soon after, it would seem, so either (a) they aren’t that customized, or there’s a lot lying around (b) even if they are customized, they can still be made in about a month, or however long the Fellowship spent at Rivendell … and Gandalf didn’t need it to fight the Nazgul at Weathertop © they’re just handy sticks when you’re an old man that has to travel a lot.

Any thoughts?

2
  • The top of Orthanc looks exactly like the top of Saruman’s staff… but I suspect that was just for the movie.

It’s just part of the kit. You got your wizard, you got your pointy hat, your robes, you gotta have a staff.

In the books there was very little discussion of Gandalf casting any type of spell at all–he lit a torch on the slopes of Barad-Dur, he nuked Legolas’s arrow, and that’s really about it (there was an article in Dragon Magazine about 15 years ago, “Gandalf was a 4th level wizard”). That not a big deal is made as to the importance of the staff is not a surprise. Most people, even people who called him a wizard, were surprised when he used magic. Kinda like Obi-Wan Kenobi…

3

In descending order of magical devices Tolkien thought out clearly / completely / decisively:

The Palantiri
The One Ring
The Other Rings
The Ringwraiths
Magical Swords
Dragons
The Wizard’s Staffs

Ya gotta stretch further than a Buffy episode to make sense of the Staffs. . . . (ducks and runs from Buffy fans, who look strangely look like orcs . . . .)

4

I’ve alway’s felt the staves to be symbolic. Though the Istari could use them to channel energy in focused manner as needed. Which makes them a tool, not an object of power, and therefore easily replaceable.

Recall from LOTR and the Hobbit, that Gandalf used a sword in combat when the need arose, and could have used the staff as an offhand weapon and a shield (to parry with), though JRRT omit’s the staff’s where abouts when Gandalf was a sword swingin’.

I believe that JRRT’s image of the archetypical wizard included the possesion of a staff, and therefore the Istari were so equipped.

The thought of Iluvatar or the Valar imbueing a staff with powers doesn’t sound right. It seems that it was the Noldor and Numenorians who were into imbuing special qualities into their goods and crafts, with the exception of Sauron and the Ring.

5

Fifth, at least. He hit the Witch-King with a lightning bolt outside Minas Tirith.

In all the books, Gandalf performed the following works of magic:

Mistaken voices to stall the Trolls until dawn
Some sort of flash which killed seceral goblins in the cave
A flash of light and then darkness in the Goblin Cave
Flaming pinecones from the top of the fir tree
(contemplated) Leaping down on the goblins like a bolt of lightning
(referred to) Healing the wing of the Lord of Eagles at some time in the past
Fancy smoke rings in Beorn’s house

Fireworks at Bilbo’s eleventy-oneth birthday party
A flash and bang to cover Bilbo’s disappearance at the same party
Intimidating Bilbo later on
Blessing Butterbur’s ale at the Prancing Pony (it’s been particularly fine since Gandalf said a good word over it)
Fighting off Nazgul atop Weathertop with fireballs
Igniting Legolas’ last arrow in the fight against the spirit wolves
Lighting the fire on the pass of Caradhas
Illuminating his staff in Moria
Magically sealing a door in Moria
Breaking the bridge of Khazad-dum
Coming back from the dead (although that wasn’t really his doing)
Igniting another of Legolas’ arrows on the hill in Fangorn
Revitalizing Theoden
Stripping Saruman of his powers and staff
Zapping the Witch-King

6

In descending order of magical devices Tolkien thought out clearly / completely / decisively:

The Palantiri
The One Ring
The Other Rings
The Ringwraiths
Magical Swords
Dragons
The Wizard’s Staffs

Ya gotta stretch further than a Buffy episode to make sense of the Staffs. . . . (ducks and runs from Buffy fans, who look strangely look like orcs . . . .)

7

Gandalf is a fifth level wizard. Yeah. Right.

This “cast the spell, see the flash and smoke” view of magic is so utterly limited. A fighters view of magic. Combat magicians. Pah!

The staff is a badge of office, kind of like a scepter. The office is the source of power, not the badge. Never judge a wizard by his staff.

Gandalf tells the Balrog a major demon, “You cannot pass.” The Balrog does not pass.

Gandalf tells Aragorn, Legolas, and Gimli that “None of you have any weapon that could hurt me.” This inventory includes Anduril, Flame of the west, Narsil reforged, the same blade that cut the finger off Sauron himself.

Gandalf steps up into the center of the court of Theoden, and the sun shines down on only Gandalf.

Gandalf rides directly into a host of wildmen and orcs at Helm’s Deep, The orcs throw down their weapons, and go die in the huorn wood, and the wildmen lie down on the ground and give up.

Gandalf tells Sauruman, “Come back.” Sauron comes back, obviously compelled against his will.

Gandalf tells Sauruman, “Your staff is broken.” The staff breaks.

Gandalf tells the Lord of the Nazgul “Go back to the abyss prepared for you.” The Nazgul hems and haws a bit, then he goes and dies.

Gandalf doesn’t stand around in a crowd casting simple spells. He is a wizard of the great powers of the age. He doesn’t get up in the morning and study his spells; he serves the Secret Fire, and wields the Flame of Anor.

Have your fifth level wizard do some of that.

Triskadecamus,
Archmage of the Freefarers
(but that’s another story)

8

Try here

9

In listing the magic performed by Gandalf, you missed the addition of the appearance of many charging horses to the flooding of the ford.

10

I add to Trisk’s list that Gandalf can inspire others to hope, courage, determination, heroism.

Seems to me that the staff is clearly a focus of power, as well as a symbol. My hypothesis is that the staff is perhaps similar to the Ring, in that a wizard can put some of his power into the staff. Presumably, putting one’s power into an object helps to focus and magnify that power.

My explanation would be that Saruman did just that, because he was hungry for power, and so he used his staff as a focus and magnifier. Thus, breaking his staff caused him pain and a diminution of his power. Gandalf did NOT concentrate his power in the staff – or perhaps only a small amount – since he was not trying to magnify his own power. Thus, while the loss of his staff weakened him, he could (presumably) lose his staff to Saruman and get another without significant loss of power.

This explanation has the nice little aside that it is consistent with Tolkien’s vision that those who seek power are the ones to watch out for, and that the greed for power contains within it the seeds of its own destruction.

11

Also missed: Gandalf tries to ward the door of the Chamber of Mazarbul against the Orcs, but the (heavy stone) door breaks under the strain. He also seems to be able to summon Eagles whenever he feels like it, though perhaps this is just a coincidence.

12

<Nanny Ogg>
o/ Ooooooh...a wizard's staff has a knob on the end...o/
</Nanny Ogg>

13

Ooooooh…a balrog can’t never be buggered at allll…

14

don’t forget that Gandalf was also in possession of the 3rd ring of the elves, which would give him powers surpassing Saruman and equal to Galadriel and Elrond

15

Used to own an entire set, and the article said 5th level, but if you read between the lines whenever Gandalf is doing something, it seems to me he is quite a bit more powerful. As far as D & D goes, a fifth level wizard does not beat a balrog in single combat, elf sword or no.

The staff was a sign of office, but it probably let the Maia occupying the body access and channel certain external workings of power or some such. Once one is lost, presumably the Valar can sanctify another from a distance.

16

I think that another valid point people are making is that when Gandalf says something, it comes true. He specifically calls this a “word of command” when the balrog tries to get through the door at the chamber of Marzabul. He issues a command to the balrog, and to the Witch King, both of which come true. He says Gollum has a part to play yet, it comes true. He correctly forecasts that Sauron will not see through their deceit. There is more to this than simply that Gandalf can see the future: he specifically states that he cannot. What is going on is that Gandalf is putting forth his power and stating something that might initially seem small and insignificant, but that no one else can avoid getting around, thus changing the possibilities.

Chamber door: his word of command seals it, and the counter spell by the balrog does not overcome the command, but rather the rock breaks under the strain of their striving.

Bridge of Kazad dum: Gandalf commands the balrog to go back to the abyss, and states that he may not pass. The bridge breaks under the balrog and the balrog falls. Into the abyss.

Gandalf tells the Witch King that his time is up: the Witch King’s time is up.

If you read the Silmarillion, the Music of the Ainur shows that Illuvatar and all the Ainur, of which Gandalf was one, were able by their music, to create the plan for the world. So it is not at all unlikely that Gandalf would be able to make small definitional changes to the world by the power of his voice alone. If you look at the Silmarillion fight between Finrod Felagund and Sauron, this is a battle of songs, not magic.

17

There’s a marked difference between LOTR magic and D&D magic. D&D magic, I guess, is the Star Trek of magic… full of nifty incantations (technobabble) and flashes of light (special effects), but lacking any real substance (until you get into the really high-level spells, that is).

In LOTR, magic isn’t about farting fireballs or pissing lightning bolts… it’s about willpower, plain and simple. Magic goes on “behind the scenes”, as it were. When the Balrog arrives, does Gandalf erect a force field and summon a magic serpent to do battle? No. He closes his eyes, and wrestles mentally with the Balrog, delaying the demon’s approach.

If you want an example of what Gandalf’s magic is capable of… look at his description of the battle he had with the Balrog after falling from the Bridge. Plummeting for miles into an abyss of deadly cold water, wrestling for a week straight with the Balrog, climbing the endless stair, and finally culminating the ordeal with a hand-to-hand match with the Balrog on the peaks of the Misty Mountains, finally hurling the Balrog over the cliffs to be smashed against the ground below.

Show me any fifth-level magic-user that could do THAT for a week straight.

18

Not missed.

I did forget about the horses at the Ford, though.

As for the fight between Finrod and Sauron, I wouldn’t say that it wasn’t magic. Rather, I would say that in Tolkien’s worldview, music is magic.

19

:smack:

Yah, it’s in your list, all right. My reading comprehension skills must have been on strike. Sorry.