Whether it’s Indian Hater Jackson or Muslim Killer Saddam, a coward is a coward. Yes, I am an old man, but I was not digging at you. Neither do I excuse any American atrocities. You must decide for yourself what you will and will not condemn.
Collounsbury, it is so nice to see you back. I was mostly a lurker in your heyday, but I must credit you (and others, like Tamerlane) for giving me enough insight into the region to seed my interest to learn more, and dispel my ignorance (of which I still have plenty).
I worry about the lack of understanding here in the US regarding Arab perspective. At least here at the SDMB, this thread can balance many of those views. I regret that our press doesn’t have more insightful coverage of these issues, to properly inform the populace. IzzyR highlights this issue in the last paragraph of his last post.
I can think of nothing more enlightening than to study the viewpoints from those on other side. In this context, I am talking about Arab perspective. To that end, I have two questions for you:
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Are there any “moderate” Arab press sources that publish on the web in English? Supposedly, Al-Jazeera just began publishing an english version of their website, but so far, the address http://english.aljazeera.net has not resovled for me. Arabnews.com is about the only source I have found - is it moderate, from an Arab perspective?
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Here in the US, many complain about the clear biases of Al-Jazeera. But I understand that their popularity in the Arab street is due to the balanced reporting (as I understand it, a good indication is that they piss off everyone). Do you concur that Al-Jazeera is balanced, at least from an Arab perspective?
Thanks so much for doing whatever you needed to do to help fight ignorance in this time of need. Please do not underestimate the value of perspectives here.
I have a vague theory forming in my mind which I’ll put to the floor. It may be a crock or there may be some truth.
My theory is that we are still fighting the Second World War. Ba’athism is a totalitarian idea that developed alongside Nazism. I have a Jewish friend who’s family were from Baghdad. They fled Baghdad in the 30s because the arabs were making comments along the lines of “When Hitler gets here, you’re for it”. The Ba’ath party were originally formed in Syria in 1941 at the height of Nazisms power.
Whilst we kicked the fascists out of Germany, we stopped short of kicking them out of the middle east.
So, any validity in my idea or is it a crock of shit?
I would like to express my appreciation for your well reasoned, well informed and insightful analysis Collounsbury. Whatever one’s stance on the current war in Iraq it is evident that there are no easy solutions.
I hope you can keep it up.
AZCowboy is http://www.aljazeerah.info/ what you’re looking for?
Is there no one else who is disturbed by the fact that the Arabs are being painted here as savage “gangsters” who are myopically parochial and incapable of sustaining a democratic government? I join others in an appreciation for the information, but the information itself is profoundly disturbing.
yojimbo, well, I don’t know. An article in the Moscow Times mentioned that the english version would be at the address I listed above. The site you offer, at the bottom of the homepage, has a mailing address of a PO box in Dalton, GA. I would have been expecting an address of Doha, Qatar.
Is this AlJazeerah the same as the Doha TV news network?
In any case, that site looks interesting nonetheless.
Yeah looking at it again it doesn’t look like the home site.
I disagree with you that this is the picture that is being painted. The failure of democracy to take hold in the Arab world is a result of historical and cultural forces, and even that varies wildly from place to place within the broad region. Collounsbury’s praise of places like Jordan–which are developing modern economies, solid governmental institutions, and the roots of democracy–should allay any implications that it’s some sort of racist caricature.
The position of the Bush Administration–that force of arms can vanquish those historical and cultural forces overnight, and turn Iraq into a model of peaceful democracy and tolerance–is the real caricature, I am afraid.
If memory serves, the English language version is due in another 2-3 weeks. Whether they can speed up that timescale in the current light, I have no idea. I’m also ery much looking forward having it online.
** Collounsbury** – I posed a question for you on page one of this thread, perhaps half-way down. I understand you’re weighed down here, but if you feel able to respond, I’d be most grateful …
I think all caricatures are unfortunate. I, for example, do not take back gifts (although I do have a problem “holding my liquor”.) But the term “gangster” in this discussion was not original to me, and I have been told in this thread that holding up a child as a bullet-proof vest is open to interpretation with these people about whether it is barbaric or not. I condemn both the American aggression and the barbarianism of the Fadayeen Saddam. Why should not both be condemned?
I think that what is being said here, and rightly so, is that “you have to walk before you can run.” That is, there is no history of democracy and representative gov’t in this region. For the US to expect that we can bomb these people into democracy is short-sighted. Additionally, democracy requires IMHO a certain level of economic stability and disposable income, which is also not present in the region.
As to the human shield issue- I think that condemning such behavior is all well and good, but it is important to understand the motivations behind such actions, as it becomes easier to stop such behavior.
blanx
Frankly, I just refuse to believe that such behavior is endemic to a whole culture or ethnic group. I don’t see all the Arabs hiding behind children to defend themselves — only the monsters in the Fedayeen. I don’t believe that Arabs generally consider children to be canon fodder. Do you feel the same way about American child abducters? If only we understood their motivation, we could stop their behavior?
London_Calling, here is the Moscow Times article I referenced, which said the english language site went up Monday, ahead of schedule, due to the war.
And I did have the URL wrong, apparently, it is shown there as http://www.english.aljazeera.net, but that still doesn’t resolve for me.
Lib, I think the “gangster” element doesn’t relate to any moral authority, but the understanding how such a brutal regime can still be respected by those under its authority.
On another recurring issue on this thread, about how the length of the war versus the perception that US/UK may choose to sacrifice civilian blood as opposed to their own, may be reflected by this snippet:
I should note that the link goes to the site yojimbo linked above, and while it is attributed to “The Guardian, James Meeks”, I was unable to find the same article on The Guardian’s site on a brief search. So I cannot vouch for the credibility of the source.
Not sure that anyone said it was endemic.
In a way, I do feel the same way about child abduction, although the issues are very different. Understanding the motivation behind it may lead to better treatment/prevention of the abduction.
Lordy. Well, so far here I’ve seen an appeal for better understanding of the Fedayeen. And I’ve seen their abductions of civilians dismissed with “desperate people do desperate things”. But while some people are busy trying to understand what is inside the head of a man who hides behind children, my concern is for what is inside the head of the child. I reckon the children are equally as desperate but infinitely more powerless. No wonder we who oppose the war are a minority.
I just wanted to offer my belated “welcome back” to Collounsbury.
No questions from me; I’m just reading this thread with wide-eyed fascination, mixed with dread at having my fears about this whole fiasco confirmed. 
“Shock and awe,” indeed.
What you say is true, but the solution to the problem does not lie with the child. And, BTW, I also oppose this war.
Originally posted by Libertarian
Here is what I saw. A child stumbled out the door. Right behind her was a man with a rifle, another child and a woman. The man grabbed the first child under her arms and held her up to his chest while he shot at British troops from the hip. They did not return fire. Yes, desperate people do desperate things. Barbaric people do barbaric things. And cowards do cowardly things. It certainly doesn’t make me feel any better to condemn cowardice and barbarianism. But the only men I can imagine who would not condemn them are cowards and barbarians.
Now, could it have been that the family believed their lives to be in immediate danger? Perhaps the man carried the child while shooting at the British troops, not to use her as a shield, but so he could remove her from the imminent danger he believed he was in?
I didn’t see this, so I can’t tell what happened, but from your description it sounds as if this could have been the desperate act of a father attempting to save his family, rather than the callous act of a barbarian, with the position of the child accidental rather than deliberate and cynical.
Collounsbury, thank you so much for taking the time to post so much valuable information, analysis and perspective on this whole horrible business. I lived in Bahrain for about 6 years during the '70s and '80s and I find that my perspective on events doesn’t mesh with the official US viewpoint in the least. Your posts have confirmed what I’d deduced based on my experience of living in the region.
I can’t begin to express how saddened I am and how fearful for the medium and long-term consequences. The short-term effects are certainly bad already, but I believe it will get much worse before it gets better.
Silly question: What’s the Iraqi dinar (IQD) worth these days?
According to the Meeks article 3M IQD = 500 GBP
When I checked against XE.com I got an exchange rate of 1 IQD = 2.04261 GBP so the 3M IQD would have been 6.1M GBP.
XE claims this to be the mid-market rate as of 3/26/03