Love is overrated

Let’s say you’re right: life and all our experiences are illusory. Cool.

Then what we are, and experience, in life comes down to what we choose.

You have the power to choose differently. You currently choose not to.

Please think about that.

I don’t necessarily disagree. Fortunately, I’m too lazy to think about it as much as you do. :slight_smile:

THat’s just an illusion. You aren’t seeing the world through her eyes but rather what you imagine that to be. Empathy might as well be called imagination, it’s not reality.

Optimism seems to fall in line with ignorance.

I find empaths to be utter BS.

That’s not really relevant to what I am getting at.

What we are, based on modern research into the self, is nothing. There is no person in the head to call us, even our actions don’t really define us. Even the notion of choice is called into question since free will doesn’t seem to have evidence for it.

I dispute the notion that love is an illusion. Love is an emotion - it exists in the mind. And even the most hardcore solipsist accepts that at least one mind exists. Even the most hardcore philosopher accepts that, even though it may not operate in the way we think it does, the mind exists. And any argument that attempts to disprove that the mind exists will collapse into the incoherent pile of garbage it is.

Minds exist, even if all else is illusion.

And emotion is an aspect of the operation of the mind. Even if everything you know is a lie, your emotions are not. Even if the thing you love is a fantasy, your emotion is real.

Denial of that is incoherent nonsense - as in literally there is no way to envision the universe such that the emotions of the experiencer aren’t based in an objective reality. Attempts to do so rely on logic errors.

So love is real. Period.

You can dispute it all you want, but that doesn’t make it any more real. Illusions feel real, that’s the point. Emotions are a function of chemicals in the brain, not really the mind. That being said, love is an illusion. It tricks you into making something other than what it is. That’s why emotions can be a lie, kind of like anger. It’s a mask for something else.

You’re reacting the same way I did when I found out love is an illusion, but unfortunately there isn’t anything to suggest otherwise.

For those with a tendency towards depression, perhaps.

You are unable to define what the mind is such that it’s separate from the chemicals in the brain. That’s because it isn’t separate from chemicals in the brain (and alcohol proves it).

So what you’ve just done? You haven’t proved that emotions aren’t real. You’ve simply proved that the mind is a product of the physical state of the brain. You’ve proved the mind is more real, even as you attempt to prove otherwise.

Unless, of course, the effects of chemicals on the brain are an illusion, but if that’s the case it just underlines how crappy your arguments are, because you’d just have cited a fallacious premise.

So in any case, we know for a hardcore fact that emotions are real, for exactly the same reason we know the mind is real.

Once you get done attempting to reject this undisprovable fact, we can get to discussing something more interesting, like what love actually is.

It’s not undisprovable, there is room enough to debate the existence of a mind, especially since your can’t really measure it. The same with emotions. Even then, it isn’t separate from the chemicals in the brain. Your haven’t proven hardcore facts, merely the assumption of th existence of things we can’t measure.

As for love I suggest you read the OP (not the poem) since it pretty much nulls any point you have about it being real. Something I wish I didn’t read because the illusion was nice, while it lasted.

What you are getting at is the self desctructive cycle of someone who needs help. Dude, I’m hanging in on these threads of yours just to remind you that you have choice.

You haven’t figured anything out better than us. Your claims are empty and serve you poorly. Hammering at them is not conversation. I am trying to talk with you.

I still don’t understand how your assertion of the illusory nature of reality in any way changes the power of choice. If all you have is that choice us an illusion then you are choosing not to engage Reality and must acknowledge that is a nonstarter and you need help.

Up in my feels here; when in love you have real physical things happen to you. You can’t eat, sleep or concentrate. Weird things make you weep. Songs overheard in the grocery store make you glaze over. Those are real, they feel real. I think maybe your blood pressure may even rise. I have felt all these things and more, associated with feelings of love and endearment.

Sure you can measure the mind - research psychologists do it every day. You measure the impact of the mind on other things. If you think it isn’t real since you can’t draw it or hold it, give me a cup of gravity please. There are many things we measure by their impact on other things.

If love isn’t real, is anger real? Depression? Frustration? Joy?
And if it is all an illusion, so are your posts.

Not to mention that a good many of us exist thanks to love.

Look I’ve taken love and dissected it in every which way humanly possible. I literally mean everything. 3 long years, and I’m left with Love exists. We are all woven in this ball we call Earth, actualy we are all as one. You ever saw the movie Avatar and the tree? We are uniquely connected whether we like it or not or whether we act on it or not that’s a personal choice. But it seems your trying to disprove Love. I believe whole heartedly that Love is and as the old saying goes Love is a feeling which words can not describe.

The problem is that Machinaforce’s arguments are irrational.

From his original post:

Because the speed of light is finite, we see things at a distance after they have happened. So this means that everything is an illusion? Or nothing matters?
If you go one light year away, you see things that happened one year ago = love is an illusion?

This is not a rational argument.

Machinaforce quotes something from the Bhagavad Gita about the mind being fickle, but omits to say that in the very next verse it says something to the effect that “Yes, but with practice it can be held firm.” In fact the Bhagavad Gita has a lot of positive and inspiring things to say about love.

So love for inanimate objects, and for things like music, etc. is real, and it’s only love for people that is an illusion? Does this even make sense?

The quality of these arguments means that arguing rationally against them is a waste of time. The OP is not open to rational arguments.

Kinda obvious. Kittens are cute, until you take them apart - so don’t.

But to say the same thing a little more seriously… some things are greater than the sum of their parts - and therefore taking them apart to examine the parts can only be a disappointment.

You are in no position to make pronouncements about my personal experiences. The fact that life has left you dissatisfied does not give you any kind of expertise about illusion and reality. Your casual disdain actually pisses me off quite a lot.