I am a strong proponent of the stance that if you can’t understand the other side of a debate then the debate is already lost. To this end, most of my time on these boards is spent lurking in threads with posters whose viewpoints are very different to my own. In particular, as I am very non-religious, I am extremely interested in understanding the opinion of religious posters, many of which I respect, some of which I do not.
Anyway, on to my topic.
One argument that I often see on this board that I think is particularly weak is “The greatest commandment is love thy neighbour”. This is often used against homophobic religious posters, and it doesn’t seem to make much sense to me.
I am taking neighbour to be defined in the sense of “One who is near in sympathy or confidence” or “One entitled to neighbourly kindness” as opposed to “A person who lives near another”
If a person believes that the bible tells them that a homosexual is an abomination, surely they are not then also a neighbour. Therefore the “Greatest commandment” does not apply.
Perhaps you aren’t familiar with the parable that goes with this statement in the Bible? The parable of the good Samaritan points out that everyone is your neighbor, even (especially) people you despise.
I have a crying baby on my lap and can’t type more now, but someone will surely come along to give you the story.
Baby’s calmed down, so I’ll say that you do have to have a little cultural background there. The Jews of Jesus’ day really couldn’t stand the Samaritans, who considered themselves to be cousins of the Jews (something about the Babylonian captivity, intermarriage, etc etc) and who had set up a sort of temple on their own mountain, since the Jews wouldn’t allow them into the Temple in Jerusalem. The Samaritans, from the Jews’ POV, were about as unclean and low-down as you could get, and a Jew would not speak or interact with a Samaritan (which is also why Jesus talking with the Samaritan woman about the water of life was so shocking).
So a parable in which the Jewish man is helped, not by a Levite or another Jew, but by a Samaritan, was a powerful statement about loving everyone.
I think that you’ve found one of many contradictions in the Bible. It’s not surprising that there are contradictions, of course, since the words were recorded over many centuries and by many different people.
One way of looking at the apparent contradiction (love everyone, but that one group is an abomination) would be to say yes, that person or group is abominable, but I will treat them decently as a fellow human being. Love the sinner but not the sin, so to speak.
Of course, there are lots and lots of other contradictions, about which one could have endless discussions and disagreements.
And we all know that the world is full of people who kill or otherwise mistreat each other over religion; the crusades and the “troubles” in Ireland being two examples. Many who sent people to concentration camps in WWII considered themselves religious, yet had no apparent difficulty with thinking of certain other people (including homosexuals) as being of an inferior type.
[slight nitpick]It’s been sort of a while since I’ve been as actively religious as I ought probably to be, but I could swear that the greatest commandment is supposed to be to love God. THEN comes love thy neighbor.[/slight nitpick]
That said, MLS is largely right; I think you’d find that most, if not all, of the more tolerant Christians on the boards will tell you that “love the sinner, not the sin” is a semi-decent way of summing up the idea. I would also suggest that most, if not all, of the more tolerant Christians on the board will further tell you that no one is an abomination (except perhaps Jack Chick… :D), merely that not all actions are equally correct.
What we really need is someone like Polycarp, or tomndebb, or Lib, or cjhoworth, or…
It has also been a long time since I’ve been a practicing member of any religion, but I spent a LOT of time in Sunday school as a young person, and gr8guy is correct that the “greatest” commandment IS to love God.
Isaac Asimov wrote a wonderful little essay entitled Lost in Non-Translation where this very issue is discussed. I highly recommend you read it.
The gist of the argument, both from Asimov and Jesus, is that EVERYONE on this planet is your neighbor. Everyone from the guy who cut you off in traffic this morning and gave you the one-finger salute as he drove away to your spouse that you woke up next to this morning. And they’re all deserving of your love. Perhaps the hardest thing about being a Christian is realizing this.
A warning, I’m not a Christian, so don’t take my previous statement as official Christian doctrine. It’s simply what I’ve observed and notice and read about Christians.
Ha ha! Poly hasn’t been here yet, it’s mine, all mine!
(Sorry, but this kind of thing draws him like a moth to a flame, and me too.)
The greek plesion, translated into english as ‘neighbor’ in the KJV, can have the meaning of any or all members of the Hebrew nation, or all mankind. In essence it means ‘any other person’ (Than yourself).
The Bible states nowhere that a homosexual is an aboniation but that the act of homsexuality is abomination(tow ebah, immoral act in Hebrew).
The Levitical laws, or Mosaic law(Depending on who’s talking about them.) describe many different abominations including items of foodstuff which were ‘unlean’(Also translated as abomination) and ‘stinky’(abomination as well.) and immoral. Christians in the modern day do not follow Mosaic law, largely as a result of the idea that we do not have to any further(Hebrews & Paul). That rules that out.
There is no doubt, and hardliners will agree with this, that the homosexual is to be loved as a neighbor, but that the act of homosexuality is a sin.
The teachings on the matter are debatable and sparse to boot. For an in depth discussion of this, see the search button.
In Christian school, I posed a similar question and was told that instead of tolerance, loving my neighbor meant hounding them until they changed their wicked ways and were spared the fires of hell. Unless I persisted in attempts to convert them, I was not showing “love,” because I was knowingly letting them oblivously skip along into eternal damnation by not nagging them into accepting Christ.
What works best for me is Judge not.
It works best for me and keeps me much calmer when I am not telling people how to live.
If I can just keep my own emotions and actions in check, then I am doing good.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by genie *
**Perhaps you aren’t familiar with the parable that goes with this statement in the Bible? The parable of the good Samaritan points out that everyone is your neighbor, even (especially) people you despise.
I have a crying baby on my lap and can’t type more now, but someone will surely come along to give you the story. **[
Yes how hard is it to love someone you already love?
If we can love our enemies then that should be an accomplishment.
