Keep in mind that Don had apparently been visiting Anna in Cali for rather frequently before he went and told her that he wanted to marry Betty – that is why Anna mentioned it was probably the end of their spending Christmas together. So it could have been a flashback to some other visit than the one where he asked for a divorce.
That said, I’m really not sure if it was a flashback, or not. I do think that was Dick talking, not Don, though. If that makes sense.
I was under the (surprising, at the time) impression that perhaps Pete was somewhat conflicted and not entirely dead-set against adoption, given how he chafed at his mother’s rant on natural extension of the bloodline or whatever. But perhaps I read that wrong (after all, apart from that, he’s been consistently portrayed as in no rush to have a child (by any means)).
When Peggy shocked everybody (even herself) at the end of Season 1 by giving birth, I thought her best option was adoption. In Season 2, we found that her sister was raising a kid of the right age–could this be Pete’s offspring? A later flashback showed Anita as heavily pregnant while Peggy was in the hospital. We may still be surprised–but I’m betting that Peggy’s child was, indeed, adopted.
There were no “single mothers” back in 1961. There were widows & divorcees with kids. (Kids from “broken homes.”) And there were unwed mothers with illegitimate children. There was no way to prove paternity. Peggy could have caused a great deal of trouble for Pete–but still ended up with no child support & (definitely) no “father figure” for her child. And she would have ruined her chances for a career.
Using Don’s advice to “pretend it never happened” was probably good in the short term. It got Peggy out of the hospital before the docs decided that, since the drugs weren’t working, perhaps it was time to try electroshock. For her future mental health, she may need to come to terms with her past. But I can’t consider letting a child be adopted as “abandonment.”
Pete has deeper problems than his hesitation to adopt. His child would have been adopted as a newborn, anyway. On the outside chance that the kid in Anita’s house is his–would removing a toddler from the only home he’s known to give him to an indifferent father be best for the kid? Trudy may be ready to adopt a child of unknown provenance. But–what about one who is the result of Pete’s adultery with a co-worker?
I’m pretty sure the hotrod scene was now (1962) Don. One of the car parts mentioned in the mashup was a '60-something-or-other and the only way to get one of those would be to be in 1960 (or 61, or 62).
Why he said he was looking for work? I don’t know.
I don’t mind Pete’s side of the argument (especially since Pete should not be in the business of raising children). The problem is the way that he presents it. He’s an inconsiderate ass who treats her like a child or an inconvenience. She has no say in her marriage, yet. In 5 years, she’ll be Betty, just without the kids. I can’t decide if I want him to find out that he has a son out there.
I think the problem is the way SHE presents it. She asks about adoption, over and over, and at this point it gets him obviously upset (“Why do you have to make me angry right before bed?”). Rather than give him time, or accept that he’s not ready, she goes behind his back and makes an appointment anyway, then has his secretary tell him about it. Very passive-aggressive. His mother gives him shit for it, threatens to disown him, so he’s dealing with that. Then Trudy runs to her father to strong arm her husband. She’s being treated like a child because she’s acting like one. Can you imagine having your father intervene in your marriage and threaten your husband’s livelihood because he won’t do what you want? Especially on a topic like this, where, if he doesn’t want to do it, he really, really shouldn’t? It’s mind-bogglingly obnoxious princess behavior.
As much as I despise Pete, and I definitely do, I’m forced to take his side. I really don’t think he’s the inconsiderate ass in this particular sitution. In this case, it’s Trudy, his mother, and his father-in-law who are being asses, IMO. He is standing up for himself despite obvious cost to him, and he’s right to.
An issue which doesn’t seem to have been addressed yet in this thread –
I think that about 75 percent of Pete’s anger had to do with the fact that his secretary found out about the adoption agency. The fact that everyone in the office is going to know about it now basically threatens Pete’s social status among his colleagues. First, he’ll be viewed as being weak for failing to produce a child through intercourse. Second, he’ll be viewed with sympathy, which also harms his status.
And the few unwed mothers that did raise their children pretended to be widows or divorcees. Paternity could be disproven through blood types, but yeah Peggy would’ve been screwed unless Pete stepped up. Even if Peggy figured out that she was pregnant before giving birth what was she supposed to do? I doubt she could afford paying off a doctor for a “theraputic” abortion, nor would she even know how to find an abortionist in the first place (would Joan?
).
ETA: Just watched it last night and catching up with the thread. 'Pologies for the long post.
Is that what he was upset about? My boyfriend and I watched it last night and couldn’t figure out what she’d done “wrong.”
No, my boyfriend thought so, too. We were both surprised that Don and Anna never seem to’ve had a romantic relationship. I didn’t expect Don to be capable of having a platonic friendship with a woman. He seems to be a better person around her. Or maybe I’m just deluding myself, hoping Don will finally have a moment of self-realization and redeem himself.
I completely agree. There was some line Don said, I’ve forgotten it now, but he seemed to admit that he’s been acting out a role for all these years, never completely inhabiting his own life.
All I caught was the Popsicle ad and the baptism at the end; did I miss some? I had to point them out to my boyfriend, even though he’s the one who was raised Catholic. The baptism imagery gave me hope that maybe Don really is going to turn himself around and start acting honorably.
To me, at least, Betty is a much less sympathetic character than she used to be. The one decent thing she did in this episode was sit down and explain to her daughter, in an age-appropriate fashion, why Don isn’t at home. Considering how immaturely she’s been acting recently, that surprised me. I took the bleeding to be her period, but I don’t know what it signified.
I’ve been waiting for that to happen for three episodes now. I, for one, have absolutely no sympathy for Pete anymore. My boyfriend was adopted, and I’m just waiting for him to completely lose it and punch the TV during one of Pete’s anti-adoption rants. Fuck Pete.
I was under the impression that Anita’s baby was miscarried or stillborn and she had adopted Peggy’s baby as a sort of “replacement.” For the life of me, I can’t remember what gave me that impression, though. But if Anita isn’t raising Peggy’s baby, her animosity and resentment towards Peggy makes even less sense.
This damn show better not end before we get some answers, is all I’m saying. I’m not sure a third season is enough to untangle this web!
I mentioned it in the post above yours. I agree, but I think most of his anger there is that Trudy went behind his back to maneuver him into this adoption. I don’t even think he was so against the adoption until everyone in his life started giving him shit about it from every direction. Now, he has shut down and does not want to deal. Honestly, I can’t blame him. It’s not that he’s anti-adoption per se, it’s all the pressure and manipulation going on around this topic, and he’s trying to just let it alone for a while but no one will allow him to.
My DVR didn’t get all the credits - what was the song at the end?
It wasn’t just that she was on top; Joan is very sexually experianced (perhaps more than Dr Rape). Remember he asked her where she learned that?
Pete isn’t anti-adoption per se; he just doesn’t feel ready for fatherhood. He was reluctant to see the fertility specialist too. Trudy wants no be a mother now. Being told she’s barren has made her feel like a complete and utter failure as a woman (after all having babies is what women are “for”:rolleyes:). Motherhood is her only redemption. She can’t understand why Pete doesn’t want to be a father (although he hasn’t comunicated this well). She really believes that if she keeps pushing him he’ll discover his paternal instincts.
Anita is pissed because she’s done what all good Catholic girls are supposed too (or take the veil); find a husband and have lot’s of babies. She can’t use birth control; can’t refuse her husband, and has as a result has several young kids. She has nothing outside of family and church. Her little sister Peggy has not been a good Catholic girl. She’s living the carefree single life, acting like a slut, and just handed her baby off and went right back to the single life. Peggy’s also making more money than her husband and isn’t burdened with a family to support.
I completely misread the baptism imagery at the end (and I was raised Catholic, too :smack:). I thought he was going to swim out to sea a la Edna Pontellier in The Awakening, and as the camera pulled higher and the waves started crashing over his head, I had to hold my breath until he popped out of the water again.
This was my favorite episode to date, mostly due to the scenes with Anna. Up until now it has only been Jon Hamm’s own charisma that kept me from writing off Don completely, and seeing Don finally being human…wow.
Christina Hendricks was excellent in the scene between Joan and Peggy – she made me cry.
I don’t think she’s any better (she also shouldn’t be in the business of child rearing). But I also don’t see that she’s got any options. I don’t think Pete’s ever listened to her about anything (not just the adoption, anything.) and she’s only ever gotten him to pay any attention to her opinions at all was by going at him through her father. (Wasn’t that how she got the apartment?) This is the only pattern that’s ever worked for her - and given Pete, I don’t see another pattern that would.
Now that Pete finally stood up to her dad, her options are staying silent and miserable or walking, and I highly doubt she’s considered the second.
It’s not a very good option, either, if her goal is to have a child. Adopting and raising a baby on her own isn’t “done” yet, and finding another husband (one willing to adopt) would take at least a few years, by which time she might be considered “too old” to be starting a family. A previous divorce might also make it difficult for her to adopt.
That said, if her goal is to not live in misery with an asshole husband, then leaving Pete is an excellent option.
Pete was again put in a bad position by Trudy’s demands re: the apartment. He felt he couldn’t afford it on his salary, and didn’t want to ask for help. I understand that. Against his better judgement, he did ask his dad and was humiliatingly rebuffed. Probably that was because his father was broke, but rather than admit it, he attacked Pete and made him feel like shit. Then he turns to his father-in-law, who we now know has all kinds of strings attached to any help he gives. So I feel Pete was again maneuvered into doing something he quite reasonably felt unready to do by Trudy, who is a spoiled brat who just wants what she wants, screw what Pete wants. I’m glad he’s putting his foot down about a kid, because neither of them should be raising one, and they definitely shouldn’t be raising one together.
I cannot believe I’m siding with Pete here, because I really do not like him, but… Trudy has not conducted herself as a mature adult at all in this marriage. She has manipulated Pete and not listened to him. She is still a little girl who runs to Daddy for everything and expects to get what she wants regardless of the other partner in the marriage. Yes, Pete is a socially maladjusted prick, but considering his parents, it’s no wonder. I think he’s showing surprising backbone and there’s hope for him yet. Their marriage, however, I agree is destined for misery and possibly divorce.
Your boyfriend believes that everyone should be willing to adopt? This is the one thing I’m with Pete on. He’s not ready to be a parent and he doesn’t like the idea of adoption. I find no fault in this. And I’ve never heard him “ranting” on the subject. He stated his perfectly understandable objection to it. To the extent that he’s lost his temper, it’s because he’s being unfairly pushed, but I’ve still never heard anything close to a “rant.”
They have never even hinted as to what actually happened to Peggy’s baby. It has been subject to speculation in these threads. We have no solid evidence regarding whether the baby we’ve seen with the sister is Peggy’s.
Alphaboi nailed it. The sister is being a good Catholic and not getting anything out of it. Peggy is acting like a whore and getting to do whatever the hell she wants, and is even being rewarded for it. That’s why, when she saw that the priest was giving Peggy special attention, she spilled the beans about the baby.
George Jones “Cup of Loneliness”
Thanks. I’m a big Possum fan. Can’t believe I didn’t at least recognize the voice.
I don’t think she’s saying that everyone should be willing to adopt. Adoption isn’t for everyone. But Pete’s made it pretty clear he thinks a child who isn’t biologically his is somehow inferior, and I can see how this would be very hurtful. Yes, it’s the 1960s and it’s a fictional tv show, but this is a stigma that adopted children and their parents still struggle with today.
I agree that Trudy is all kinds of wrong to make the appointment behind his back and run to Daddy when things go wrong. But Pete isn’t exactly being open-minded about it either.
I don’t think he has any moral obligation to be open-minded about it. We’re talking about raising a child as one’s own. That’s a life-long commitment. And there’s nothing evil or unnatural about being uncomfortable about making such a commitment to a person who is not a genetic descendant.
I should think that Pete’s mother’s “dregs and rejects” comment is the one that ought to be offensive.